Most Residents at Meeting Unsure About Cityhood
About 100 people showed up at Oak Grove United Methodist Church on Monday to listen to several local politicos talk about what it would take to start a city in DeKalb County
The vast majority of residents at a Monday meeting to learn about cityhood in northern DeKalb County said they were unsure they wanted to be part of a new city.
And everyone was even less sure about where another new city might be.
In what was billed as an information-only session hosted by the Briarcliff Woods East Neighborhood Association at Oak Grove United Methodist Church, the vast majority of 100 or so residents raised their hands to indicate they were unsure about cityhood. Only a small number showed they favored or disliked the idea.
Fran Millar, DeKalb County's sole Republican state senator; Tom Taylor, a DeKalb state represenatative, and Dan Weber, a former state senator in DeKalb, spent roughly 90 minutes talking with residents about cityhood in the county. They spoke about everything from the necessary $30,000 cost of a study to determine a future city's feasability to the different services a city can offer. (Peachtree Corners, for instance, is "city-light," which means it exists almost solely to give its residents control over code enforcement and zoning and doesn't offer much in the way of tangible services.)
No boundaries for a city were discussed. After the meeting it wasn't clear who wanted a city, where that movement might start and what communities it might include. It was obvious that Monday's meeting was the very beginning of a difficult process that might seek to organize swaths of residents and communities into a collective enterprise. But, this area, the North Druid Hills-Briarcliff area (or the Lakeside-Emory-Northlake area or whatever else you choose to call it), has existed for so long officially as unincorporated DeKalb County.
One resident, a marketing executive, said one of the most important questions that needs to be answered is, at its heart, about branding: "Where do we live right now?"
It's a question that doesn't appear to have vexed the many residents who have organized into nearby cities recently such as Brookhaven, Dunwoody and Sandy Springs, areas that arguably had clearer identities before they became cities.
But Millar, of Dunwoody, said it was important to look at what residents could get out of cityhood.
"When I think of North Druid Hills, this area, I think of preservation. I think of zoning," he said. "When something goes wrong, you've got someone down the street you can complain to."
Millar, Taylor and Weber also sought to dispel assumptions about cityhood – things that might drive some residents to want it in the wrong way. For instance:
- The chances of a city getting its own school district are almost nill, Taylor said. No matter what, most of your property taxes will still continue to go to the DeKalb County School System.
- Starting a city doesn't mean you're seceding from the county. You will most likely continue to pay for some county services such as water and sewer and garbage collection. About 80 percent of tax revenues will continue to go to the county, Millar said: "When cities are created, people are still part of Dekalb County."
- It's a difficult battle and a slog of a process. And if you can get cityhood approved by the legislature, the residents still have to vote in favor of it.
All of this is also separate from a movement to create a City of DeKalb, which is the subject of a study committee in the legislature. Millar said he thinks it's nearly impossible that would happen, and no legislation proposing it would make it off the floor of the House or Senate.
A number of residents expressed frustration that the meeting had no one speaking against cityhood. Although Jeff Rader, DeKalb County's District 2 commissioner who has spoken against cityhood before, was at the meeting, he left early before making any remarks.
"You have shown us quite simply that you're all pro-city," one resident shouted as a woman explained that any new city needs a significant amount of commercial or industrial property to finance a city without over-taxing residents. "Let's move on to another question."
Kevin Levitas, a former DeKalb state represenative who represented Briarcliff Woods, said at the next meeting he organizes, speakers opposing cityhood would be invited to speak. He said he was shooting for Nov. 29 as a tentative date.
No packets or heavily detailed information about cityhood was handed out. Millar, Taylor and Weber offered mostly anecdotes and general reflections on what it took to get cities started in Dunwoody and Brookhaven. Millar, for instance, said Dunwoody had 90 days to organize a police force for the city, once voted approved it – a Georgia record, he said.
"Even when these cities are created, they still have warts, believe me," he said.
Another resident said everyone in the room needed to consider the idea for themselves and not be pushed by state legislators.
"There's a lot of great reasons to have a city. But if you want to start a city, the leadership needs to come from you, not from state legislators," he said.
But that sort of leadership hasn't emerged yet.
"We don't need to know how to [become a city] until we know why to do it," another resident said.
Alexia M. Kartis
8:10 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
Good summary!
Henry Batten
11:28 am on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
"We don't need to know how to [become a city] until we know why to do it."
At least someone at this meeting had some common sense.
Kestrel Larson
1:08 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
Y'all just take a good hard look at Brookhaven. Our community has been torn in two. We have neighbors against neighbor and honestly it is quite the mess. Mike Jacobs and Fran Millar are 100% to blame. Be sure you pay very close attention to the "leaders" of the city hood movement. They will be those who are the inside guys along with Mikey and Fran.
Henry Batten
1:22 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
Kestrel....... extremely wise advice. Jacobs and Millar have a hidden agenda. Not sure what it is yet, so we should heed your advice and be overly cautious.
Kestrel Larson
1:28 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
Henry,
The hidden agenda is really not hidden at all. It's divide and conquer.
Once the Brookhaven vote takes place Dec 4th, a plethora of information will be made available to you all. Count on it.
Kestrel Larson
1:31 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
One last thing, Millar and Jacobs do not care if they tear your community apart...and they will. You will drive down your streets and people will be categorized as Yes people and No people. It will resemble a place you want nothing to do with and the community neighbor connections will be broken. They live in Dunwoody and wanna be Dunwoody.
David Claude Warlick
1:08 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
I agree with Alexia that Jonathan wrote a good summary of the meeting. The meeting might not have represented the local population as there were no non-white people in the audience or on the bema. There were no women on the agenda, although several women offered comments. We need to reach out to the entire community for our proposed November 29 meeting. City status does offer the neighborhood the option for expanded public services. While K-12 schools may not be one of these expanded services, Decatur did become a city and it did become a Local Education Association (LEA) with its own excellent charter schools (City Schools of Decatur).
Tom Doolittle
2:23 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
...and new city school systems are not out of the question. With the well publicized supermajority in the Leg, the Republicans will be unopposed at putting a dozen referendums for constitutional amendments every year. Even without a formal city system, its easy to see how a jurisdiction can now draw a charter school(s) boundary and only have city residents attend.
Kevin Levitas
2:53 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
For anyone who wants to participate in an online forum to discuss this issue: http://northdekalbcity.blogspot.com/
Kestrel Larson
3:29 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
Here is another useful link. http://nonewcity.org/
Also if anyone does speak out in opposition be prepared to be attacked personally by your state rep Mike Jacobs as he has done multiple times to us in Brookhaven.
Kestrel Larson
3:51 pm on Tuesday, November 13, 2012
Here is another useful link:
http://theotherbrookhaven.blogspot.com/
Folks, big message here...get educated FULLY SONNER RATHER THAN LATER. The fix will be on soon enough.
Leah Williamson
6:44 am on Wednesday, November 14, 2012
Among my neighbors in the Northlake area, there is no one pushing for cityhood but many who are simply curious about what it would entail. The recent/ongoing elections in nearby Brookhaven no doubt play a large part in this. So thank you for this excellent article, and thank you also to those who have taken the time to host meetings and put up blogs on this important topic.
As an aside to those here who do have a specific pro- or con- agenda, I suggest keeping your tone level and avoid mocking, derisive name-calling in your comments and on your blogs. Engaging in immature behavior doesn't help your credibility with the Undecideds.
"E Pluribus Unum"
7:57 am on Wednesday, November 14, 2012
Wow...very interesting article. As a resident of the new city of Brookhaven, here are a few points that might be worthy to consider...do not let the "process" and the "mechanics" of how a new city is formed to get ahead of:
- Objective data to analyze cost benefits that will be touted to justify city hood. Since the Brookhaven CVI study was robustly criticized as being paid and manipulated by city hood supporters, really watch who might pay for a study and their motives. If you can even have a way to intentionally balance the mix (likely supporters and non- supporters) of any group serving to advance a city hood study, that might help to avoid the lack of trust and discord still existing in the Brookhaven community.
- The CVI folks at UGA were also highly critized for not being objective in their study and analysis. It might be worthwhile to find another group to perform a study should you get that far. Again, try and get an objective group to fund any possible study.
- Really, really, really work hard to educate and get input from the wider community. IMHO that did not happen with Brookhaven. This was a major reason why I personally never fully accepted the justification for a new city. I believed it only had input from a few. Whatever decision you make does affect the broader community.
- Do not allow anyone to convince you that a "rush" decision is necessary. Take several years and not months to study.
"E Pluribus Unum"
8:07 am on Wednesday, November 14, 2012
Continuation....finally, if and when you get to a point to vote yes or no, really work hard To get the majority of your community to vote. That was not the case with Brookhaven. Again, in my opinion a relatively few decided to vote and the uneducated and uninformed majority was asleep at the wheel. I do hope my perspectives are helpful. I might have been convinced the new Brookhaven city was the way to go if the transparency of the process was different and if broader input was intentionally sought out. Good luck to you in the future.
Tom Doolittle
9:33 am on Wednesday, November 14, 2012
Thanks "E"--and people here (whatever "here" may end up being) can thank Brookhaven for giving us something to watch that's a little more applicable to this area's situation than Sandy Springs or Dunwoody.
Too much, too fast, no history, little consensus and few public assets--balance in revenues will have to come from massive increase in commercial investment in a very bad economic period--that will last in reality, possibly even virtually.
Brookhaven needs time for building the kind of civic landscape and leadership traditions that only decades of legislative struggle can help "steel" your "bones"--see Sandy Springs. Dunwoody still awaits its first big challenge, but at least had some democratic history (and possibly enough commercial revenue with the CID) before taking the plunge. Of course, they have had and will continue to have direct access to Republican leadership to ease the perils of citi-hood (bonding for instance--and facilitation of a private sector school system--oh so many other things.)
Tucker actually might have been an appropriate "second" to Sandy Springs in terms of its "bones" (before Dunwoody)--and those folks are doing what is required...wait and see. (Of course, they still do OK claiming partnership with DeKalb--and still part of the power structure.)
CID and/or annexation into Atlanta and (not or) Chamblee (depending on where "here" is) may be the best, most cautious option for the I-85/BriarPatch/Druid/Toco group of communities.
JuliaMcElroy
10:20 am on Thursday, November 15, 2012
I wish Decatur would annex the Emory Corridor up to Northlake. I know they won't (for many reasons, but mostly Decatur running its own schools) but we have a lot to offer them like Emory, good schools, nice houses, and more commercial property. I feel more a part of Decatur than Chamblee, Brookhaven, Tucker, or Atlanta.
Tom Doolittle
11:29 am on Thursday, November 15, 2012
Julia--your comment shows the potential of what a so-called "city-hood" discussion can develop into. In three sentences, you've invoked geography, community identity, transportation and employment (institutional stakeholder--Emory) as a way to define a jurisdiction, whether as a new city or an annexation. In fact, you've implied the preference being annexation.
We rarely hear in a public forum how people relate to the various neighborhoods around them, how frequent they travel them--whether their connected or not--and whether they should be formally connected--what their natural centers are....
What we do get is some common-wisdom straw man like "new city" or "CID" or "TAD" and that defines the discussion as "pro-con" from that point forward.
(BTW--if someone were to say that the play is in for the DeKalb portion of Congressional Dist #5 to be annexed, into Atlanta, how would that change the conversation?)
Ripley2210
7:12 am on Saturday, November 17, 2012
I would like DeKalb to become a city. Look what City of Decatur has; an excellent police force unlike DeKalb police. They have excellent schools and I know there would be no question about what we had recently around the Little Creek Horse Farm rezoning for a RaceTrac. As long as we are not a city the commissioners will allow greedy businessmen in to take over green space. I want a city. We are overcrowded with businesses already. We are becoming like Duluth, GA. I moved here in 1995 from Duluth when things were quaint. Duluth went from farming land and green space to something concrete and chain stores. I don't recognize the area any longer. Now DeKalb County has become more and more commercial what with RaceTracs and QT's and now WalMart asking to take down a historical church at Scott Blvd? Come on people! If you don't get it move on.
Lou
4:19 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Leah, what a rude comment: "(i)f you don't like it, move on." There are those of us who like the address "Atlanta" and the reason many of us moved here years ago and have worked to make our area a great place to live. Why should WE "move on"? We're the status quo; you're the one wanting to change our name. Maybe YOU should "move on." Think about it.
Ripley2210
7:12 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
I did not mean move elsewhere. I meant move forward.
I would also like to express the fact that this country is no longer what it used to be. I fear a Banana Republic and more crony leadership from a Muslim President. I am a 2nd generation Holocaust survivor. I fear for our country, not just our county reps. I meant no offense. I may go to live with my family in Israel. Oh, and don't forget the petition I fought for to keep RaceTrac out of Orion Drive across from Little Horse Creek Farm Conservancy. Thank you so much.
Kay Clark
5:14 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
I fully agree with Lou. If you think it was "quaint" here in 95, well...I don't know what to say to you. I've been here since the early 70s and this part of ATL hasn't changed any more than any other part. I live here because I like having an Atlanta address and because I'm totally satisfied with the services, the schools and the quality of life on offer.
If you want change, go to where you want to be. Don't try to drag the rest of us with you.
Ripley2210
7:15 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
How rude! The Jews in Israel come together. I have never felt welcome in this country since I was born a U.S. citizen after my parents ran from Hitler In 1949 and settled in Atlanta. There is no cohesion.
Ripley2210
7:17 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Kay, I have lived in Atlanta since my birth in 1954. So, how long have you been here?
David Claude Warlick
7:30 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
OK, OK. Enough. The topic is cityhood. Please take your other personal issues offline. :-)
Brookhaven Maven
9:04 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
To David C W @ 7:30pm --
Having seen what Brookhaven cityhood has done to my community, I would say the "personal issues" as you refer to them ARE the issues. Brookhaven cityhood has done nothing so far but divide the populace --- neighbor against neighbor.
Everyone who lives in the area now being stirred up by Millar and Taylor (and Mike Jacobs in the wings, no doubt) has a different personal perspective, just like all of us in the Brookhaven mudprint do. I caution you and others that pursuing this "solution" of cityhood will cause much foment and devisiveness in your communities, from Decatur to Emory to Druid Hills.
Since there are going to be personal differences, you may as well get them out in the open now, instead of trying to squelch them!
-- The Maven
Henry Batten
9:13 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
Words of wisdom if I've ever heard them!!!!! Kudos for posting!
Tom Doolittle
10:04 pm on Saturday, November 17, 2012
If you look deeply, every constitutional amendment (that's what the city-hod vote is) that we've had to vote on has divided neighbor against neighbor. That tells you something about governing this way--especially where legislation is really localized. It stings and is cynical as hell. Whether you are Republican, Democrat or other, or message to this bunch ought to be no more referendums and constitutional amendments--work within the law.
Ripley2210
7:38 am on Sunday, November 18, 2012
DavId, I won't support any more issues as I did for no RaceTrac. You people are rude and ungrateful.
Kathleen Kane
7:55 am on Sunday, November 18, 2012
Wow I really missed out not making the meeting this past week. Please keep us informed on the next one......Nov. 29th is the date that was mentioned. I've had several friends ask my opinion of this area becoming its own city. I do not have enough information presently to have an opinion. I think the take away from reading everyone's thoughts is to approach this slowly and thoughtfully and to get more information. Please keep us in the loop!
Cheryl Miller
12:59 am on Wednesday, November 21, 2012
Tom is right on the money on this one.