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Does Metro Atlanta Have Too Many Cities?

One of the world's largest metro areas also has a slew of smaller governments. Our Patch Question of the Week asks you, do we have too many?

 


For a big metro area, Atlanta sure does have a lot of little governments running around.

See, there's Atlanta. As in, city of Atlanta, with Mayor Kasim Reed and the city council. And then there's Fulton County, in which Atlanta proper takes up a lot of space.

But the city of Sandy Springs also resides inside Fulton's borders, as do a couple of other municipalities. And Buckhead has such a strong identity and economy that there is a proposal that it should become its own county as well.

Then there's DeKalb County, in which Chamblee, Decatur, Avondale Estates, Stone Mountain, Lithonia, Dunwoody and now Brookhaven reside.

Now there's talk about more DeKalb communities incorporating themselves, such as in the North Druid Hills and Briarcliff communities. Several neighborhoods around the Chamblee area narrowly defeated a referendum to join the city themselves.

And if all of that wasn't enough, there's even a meeting coming up about creating a city of DeKalb itself, made up of all the county's dwindling unincorporated areas.

The sheer volume of these separate counties and cities can made it hard to get things done. In fact, that was one of the arguments in favor of the recent transportation sales tax referendum. In meetings all around Atlanta, proponents said TSPLOST would create projects that benefit multiple local governments.

But despite high-profile endorsements by Gov. Nathan Deal and others, voters didn't buy that argument, and solidly defeated the TSPLOST at the polls.

So Patch wants to know: does metro Atlanta have too many cities and counties? Or is going "local," the way to go when it comes to government?

Related Items:

Is Buckhead Big Enough To Be A County?

Brookhaven Voters Approve Cityhood.

Most Residents At Meeting Unsure About Cityhood.

Voters Say 'No' To Chamblee.

Legislators To Discuss 'City Of DeKalb' On Nov. 29.

Cascade Hears About Transit Tax.

Gov. Nathan Deal Strongly Endorses Transporation Tax.

TSPLOST Fails Across North Georgia.

  • Does metro Atlanta have too many governments?

    (Voting has been closed for this question)
    • Yes. It's enough to drive you loony.
        26 (68%)
    • No. Local is the way to go.
        9 (23%)
    • Doesn't matter. You can't trust any government.
        3 (7%)
    Total votes: 38
  • Your vote will only count once. This is not a scientific poll. View Results Vote!
About this column: Patch asks your opinion on a hot topic in the news. Related Topics: Question Of The Week

Lucas Roberts

6:43 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

I think cityhood is the way. DeKalb County cannot govern what it currenly has. The current leaders have no real plan or idea to how to bring the county together. There idea is to pump more money into south DeKalb and try to bring industry there.

And from the Neighborhood Sumit that DeKalb has not to long back - they are not planning to change. The drive it to develop south DeKalb and fight cityhood in the corts with our tax dollars.

Here is a link an article about the summit:
http://northdruidhills.patch.com/blog_posts/dekalb-county-reactive-neighborhood-summit

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Gale Windsor

7:55 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Commissioner Watson is a powerful and savvy politician, just watch him in his breakfast meetings at Wesley Chapel. I admire the man, yet his understanding of causation is misplaced if he thinks incorporation is at the root of DeKalb governance issues.

He knows that, but the argument of 'walled off, rich cities' sells. If DeKalb was even slightly proactive in reducing it's spending after Dunwoody incorporated Brookhaven might not have passed it's EMANCIPATION. The Commission and CEO choose not to listen to what was being said in North DeKalb about Parks and Recreation being ignored while gorgeous new facilities were being built elsewhere.

When music stops, will you have a chair?

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Dean

8:26 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

No, having so many municipalities is not the most efficient, if only counties like DeKalb were run properly these municipalities wouldn't be needed, as it is citizens have the right to divorce themselves from the Dekalb Democrat bureacracy as much as possible, through cityhood.

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Meinert

8:51 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

It seems to me that these 'mini-cities' are an attempt to (1) control a bigger piece of the revenue pie while (2) separating the underprivileged communities from some of that pie. At the end of the day it creates another layer of bureaucracy paid for with that revenue. We don't need more layers; we simply need more effective layers. We do that by defining the objectives for the bureaucracy so that we have a way to test whether it has performed effectively.

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Chris

5:24 am on Friday, November 30, 2012

Your argument is like saying if only we didn't need oxygen, we wouldn't need to breathe. If DeKalb was more effective? Well, they aren't. They won't be. The culture will never allow it and the ignorance of the voters in most of DeKalb won't force the culture to change. Stop thinking in hypotheticals. Dunwoody and Brookhaven are needed because DeKalb isn't effective. There's no push for incorporation in Forsyth County and nothing substantial in Gwinnett. Sure, you have the HOA on steroids that is Peachtree Corners, but when the govt is effective, people aren't pushing for citihood.

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Eddie E.

8:09 am on Friday, November 30, 2012

Chris,
It may have escaped you, but due to it's highly rural nature ( a century ago) Gwinnett County had already formed all of the municipalities it could afford. They were mostly situated along the railroad and have slowly expanded so the boundaries nearly overlap (when I was a kid, there was a huge, unincorporated expanse between Norcross, Duluth, Suwanee and Buford).
The cities existed because the weak county government was unable to fund water, sewer, police of fire, electrical distribution or natural gas. The cities provided all these things albeit in fairly small and inefficient manners.
It also may have escaped you that during the same period, Dekalb County, at great expense, developed the infrastructure to provide all these services and more.
Of course, that occurred at a period in time when community and cooperation were valued above the 'I got mine' mentality.

HamBurger

8:55 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Mr. Tim, in addition to the seven DeKalb County cities listed in your article, there are four more for a total of eleven cities:

Atlanta (in DeKalb)
Clarkston
Doraville
Pine Lake

Please pass the yellow mustard!

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Bill Klenner

9:10 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

The Metro Atlanta has way to many fiftons. It is not the cities that are the problem, the local units know what is best for their locals. The problem is the large number of counties, and they do not know how to work together. Combining some or all of these counties would get rid of a large percentage of the duplicate bureaucracy and bring in a lot more efficience.

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RD

9:20 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

That is a good point about the number of counties. Georgia has the second most number of counties in the US, only behind Texas.

It's also worth mentioning that some folks in North Fulton want to see the return of Milton Co. too, probably for the same reasons that others want more mini-cities. It reflects a complete mistrust in government that is not necessarily undeserved.

RD

9:12 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

The rise in "mini-cities" is NIMBYism gone wild. I have a hard time seeing how anything regional or statewide can get accomplished if everyone is only looking out for their little fiefdoms and now have to deal with another layer of bureaucracy.

I believe many of Atlanta's problems are due to lack of an authority overseeing/coordinating the metro area. I know that's crazy talk, but other cities are doing it: http://www.economist.com/node/10809127.

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Phil

9:22 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

If the County governments--Fulton and Dekalb--were more responsive to ALL their constituents and run more efficiently, there would not be a need (nor a demand) for local cities. This move towards "local" has been the answer to County governments that are over staffed, poorly managed, do not outsource some services etc.

It is not the fault of the city proponents that there are so many cities. It is the decades of mismanagement by the County governments that has frustrated the electorate to the point of being open to localizing.

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Joe The Plumber

9:38 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Phil,
It all starts with a commissioner who is engaged with their constituency. Elaine Boyer has been over our area for 16+ years. Why we didnt start with a changing of the guards there before cityhood in Brookhaven is beyond me. In no case should a rep have a seat for 16+ years.

RD

9:26 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

It's probably worth mentioning here that earlier this year Georgia was ranked *the* most corrupt state in the Union by the Center for Public Integrity: http://www.publicintegrity.org/2012/03/16/8427/georgia-worst-score-country

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Joe The Plumber

9:40 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

And Brookhaven seems to be following this lead. J Max Davis and his Pay to Play tactics proves this to be true.

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don Gabacho

2:44 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

"It's probably worth mentioning here that earlier this year Georgia was ranked *the* most corrupt state in the Union by the Center for Public Integrity: http://www.publicintegrity.org/2012/03/16/8427/georgia-worst-score-country";

And that is suppose to justify the state legislated city?

Not even township?

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Chris

5:28 am on Friday, November 30, 2012

Here here! Finally something Georgia is the best at. :)

Howard Roark

9:39 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

And now it is time to break up the County school districts (especially DeKalb) and bring control of education closer to the communities. Get prepared for those battles. Anyone who disagrees does not have children currently in these districts, has their head in the sand, or a combination of both.

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HamBurger

9:49 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Mr. John, and that will happen with the recreation of Milton County. The plan is Milton County redux will include Dunwoody and Brookhaven.

Please pass the yellow mustard!

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Dean

9:52 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

We can only pray, Hamburger.

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HamBurger

10:04 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Here is the Vinson study for your new county. It includes Sandy Springs, just imagine it including Dunwoody and Brookhaven!

http://tinyurl.com/8hyrdwj

http://tinyurl.com/9to4u5g

Would you like a special hamburger while you contemplate the cost of creating and integrating a new county fracturing the metro region?

Please pass the yellow mustard!

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HamBurger

10:13 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Gentlemen, further fragmenting the metro area with more government is not in our best interest. If anything, our elected state officials should have been selling folks on cleaning up DeKalb County (government and school system) and government consolidation. Unfortunately, although folks think all of this new government insulates them from what they don’t like, it actually creates more problems.

Amazingly, we are so smart yet we do not really understand government and how to make it work for us. Our dumbed down public education system will contribute to our demise.

Check out this video by the CVI regarding government consolidation.

http://www.cviog.uga.edu/video/consolidation

Please pass the yellow mustard!

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Eddie E.

10:33 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

jg,
Never short of preposterous, dysfunctional ideas are you.

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Howard Roark

10:52 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Thank you, Eddie, for those kind words. See, what I find to be preposterous and dysfunctional is DeKalb County and the School District and I will do everything with little power I have to help "fracture" (HamBurger's term) both. I look forward to seeing you tonight at St. Martin's when you are asking to see the Budget that the Commission is not responsible for providing.

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Eric Hovdesven

2:27 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Splitting up Fulton by creating Milton is a mistake. As stated there are already too many counties in Metro Atlanta.

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Eddie E.

11:26 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

jg,
Please do not ever mistake anything I send your way as a kind word.

Howard Roark

10:06 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Since you are offering, I'll take two! Thank you, Mr. Burger. Nothing like a good fracturing!

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Umbrella

11:43 am on Thursday, November 29, 2012

I agree with the excess number of counties. The problem in consolidating them would be that the rural folk have too much of their identity wrapped up in their county name.

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Joe The Plumber

12:08 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

It would be unlawful to create another county. Georgia has it max - unless of course those laws are changed.

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Joe The Plumber

12:26 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

But like Brookhaven (city of North Atlanta), Milton was also a county once before. Both failed.

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Dean

1:06 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Hey, look at this thing that happened 50 years ago, surely it would be exactly the same today!

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HamBurger

1:11 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Mr. Joe, yes, there are hurdles in the way of Milton County redux. Thus, the Milton County CVI study to lay the groundwork to create support for reviving the county. Then, the creation of Brookhaven. The rest is simply a compliant legislature over the next two or three sessions. After all, we are in Georgia! See RD’s second link above.

Hey, anyone seen that overcoat in the hall closet with several bundles of one hundred dollar bills?

Please pass the yellow mustard!

Eric Hovdesven

2:24 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

The problem isn't the number of cities, its perhaps the number of counties or the lack of good coordinated oversite/funding. For example Grady ends up largely providing emergency care for the entire 10 to 20 metro county region yet its Fulton and DeKalb that fund it all.

Keep in mind counties providing municipal services is not the normal way to do things. Most states in urban/suburban areas have the counties much like the current Fulton county where several municipal services are provided by the cities thus relieving the County of that responsibility.

The problem in DeKalb is not too many cities but too much unincorporated areas that are not having their more localized services provided by Cities, towns or villages.

As has been said since Dunwoody was seeking to become a city, DeKalb needs to sit down and figure out how the county should be divided up so that viable cities cover the entire County. Dekalb has to date ignored that and as mentioned above also failed to make the necessary adjustments to lower expenses as their responsibilities were reduced by cities taking on services.

Regional Transportation and Transit is not effected by these services. So the idea of coordination being more difficult is sort of a red herring.

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Phil

7:42 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

Totally agree, Eric H. Dekalb County has had elections and new CEO's and, still, the County cannot seem to provide a level of services expected because of its avoidance in getting its staffing levels in line. Numerous third party studies repeatedly cite Dekalb County as being inefficient--under Levitan, under Jones, and under Ellis. Why would anyone suddenly think that change is possible given the current structure. At least a new city changes the dynamic.

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CrowBurger

8:23 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

With DeKalb it's always a budget shortfall and "where we gonna get the money?" Shoot, they were making 200k off recycling and charging 35$ for you to donate....

Enuff Govt Already

5:35 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

YES, there are too many governments! I don't think the govt (city or county) is the problem. I believe the problem lies with the elected officials. Just creating more govt because we don't like the ones currently elected does not solve the problem and only creates another platform for more problems down the road. Where does it stop, with a new state or a new country? I'd prefer to deal with a single or consolidated govt but that seems out of the question so my next choice would be some type of township or village concept. Currently cities and counties compete instead of complimenting each other in their pursuit of tax money and in the delivery of services. IMHO the counties of DeKalb, Cobb, Gwinnett, Fulton and Clayton should provide the big ticket items: public works, public safety, water and sewer. The townships could focus items like code enforcement, permits, planning and etc.

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A Resident

7:31 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

In New England, ie MA, NH, VT, CT, there are many small towns that seem to work just fine. They have police, fire, and other services. Why does it work there and not here?

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Eddie E.

11:25 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

residue,
And those small towns were most often incorporated before we stole our areas away from the people who had a 10,000 year lead on our arrival.

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Enuff Govt Already

11:17 am on Saturday, December 1, 2012

@A Resident, I read more and more articles form the north about small govt merging as a cost saving measure and my personal experience is that while quaint they tax the life out of you while providing fewer and fewer services. Maine's former governor made regionalizing or the merging the local govts in order to save money and improve services part of his platform.

CrowBurger

8:20 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

We southerners are too ignant (and prideful) to look to the north for innovative ideas on governance. But, clearly the current model in GA needs serious reconditioning. The Feds should pick up the tab for the always promised but never achieved "Reconstruction" of the southern states.

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Eddie E.

11:24 pm on Thursday, November 29, 2012

To the point, there may not be enough cities yet, but the various Metro republican groups are working around the clock to ensure there is a balkanization to allow republicans to control small areas where they cannot hold sway over large areas.

When the small areas fail, fall back and blame the Democrats.

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