Generally speaking, we love our Chick-fil-A here in the North Druid Hills-Briarcliff area. Heck, when the popular fast food chicken sandwich restaurant opens a new location in our midst, we go nuts. (Evidence can be found on this site, for instance.)
But that particular meal – for some – may have gotten a little more complicated this week after the restaurant chain's president Dan Cathy publicly proclaimed that his company does not support gay marriage.
From a story in the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:
"We are very much supportive of the family — the biblical definition of the family unit," Cathy said in article published Monday by the Baptist Press. "We are a family-owned business, a family-led business, and we are married to our first wives. We give God thanks for that."
Chick-fil-A has been under fire from gay rights groups since early 2011, when it was revealed that an independent operator in Pennsylvania supplied food to an event sponsored by a group formed to defeat same-sex marriage initiatives.
How has Chick-fil-A's position on gay marriage affected your patronage of their restaurant? Tell us in the comments section below.
Chris M.
6:23 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
Last time I checked, this is America and everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I support gay marriage 110%. I also feel that the Cathy family has the right to believe whatever they want. It's funny to me how everyone loves the right to free speech until someone says something that they don't want to hear.
John Sergent
2:46 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Who and where, exactly, is anyone suggesting he or his company has no right to say whatever they want? Or are you trying to claim that expressing disagreement with what someone says, or basing purchasing decisions on what someone says, magically becomes a violation of their free speech?
Chris M.
3:36 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
What I'm trying to say John, is that it doesn't make someone wrong just because they disagree with what a popular group of people are saying. I've seen a lot of people ganging up on the Cathy family saying that they are bigots and wrong for following their beliefs. I just don't appreciate it when someone gets labeled just because they happen to have a different opinion.
John Sergent
4:13 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
So: it's fine for *them* to voice their opinions, but it's wrong for people to respond negatively? Would you mind explaining why free speech apparently should only work in one direction? ("Labelling" is a meaningless term, so please drop it. All words, or at least all nouns, adjectives, adverbs, etc are labels.)
X
6:42 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Chris M. - It appears you don't grasp the problem. The trouble isn't with his speech. Who cares what his opinion is? Hate marriage equality. Love marriage equality. Whatever.
The trouble is that Chick-Fil-A takes its profits and makes sizable donations to organizations that harm gay people and their children. That's not a Christian value. Some of these organizations routinely spread misinformation and outright lies about gay people, such as equating homosexuality with pedophilia. A spokesperson of another organization that Chick-Fil-A gave money to has called for the criminalization of gays and theorized that gays should be deported.
This isn't about the opinion of Chick-Fil-A's COO. This is about Chick-Fil-A supporting organizations that harm people.
Chris M.
9:09 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
I'm no fan of those moral majority type organizations and if it makes the gay community feel any better, those groups tend to hate everybody besides themselves so they hate me too. They can hate me all they want and if one of them ever attacked me, I would put that person in the dirt. We all have to put up with things we don't like. I for one, can't stand the fact that my tax dollars go toward supporting a government that kills people wholesale on a daily basis.
Michael P.
3:00 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
They have the right to say what they want. Others have the right to not eat there. I personally will go out of my way to eat there now. I did not before, but now I will. I just really respect any company that is willing to state their opinion and stand behind it.
geeky
10:43 am on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Yep, he sure can, but it's not very good business practice to alienate segments of your customers, or your business partners (i.e. Jim Henson company). I don't personally care what Cathy thinks, but I do care that he donates large amounts of money to anti-equality causes and that he now chooses to retaliate against Henson for severing ties with Chick Fil A. Really, the toys just happen to be defective a day after Henson pulls the plug?
Tom Doolittle
7:50 pm on Friday, July 20, 2012
Good point, Chris. The issue can generate a complex discussion. However, you said it succinctly--OK with same-sex "marriage" and OK with Cathy saying what he wants. BTW--for those thinking he was on a soap box--he was answering someone else's question directly...he didn't raise the issue. Anyway--I love the chain--and its impeccability comes from somewhere...don't care where.
Nancy
6:41 am on Saturday, July 21, 2012
It's not that Dan Cathy "doesn't support gay marriage" (which, by the way, affects him HOW?), it's that his organization actively supports hate-filled anti-gay organizations.
For a so-called christian organization, there seems a disconnect when it is against love.
OakGroveParent
10:54 am on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Personally, I support gay marriage. It's fine with me and I believe that any two people who desire to be legally joined in marriage should be able to do that. But I also support freedom and believe the owners of Chick-fil-a (and anybody else) have a right to their own opinions and as such should be able to voice them in any way that they see fit. It's their food/money/time to donate to whatever cause they choose just as it is up to the individual to decide if they want to eat/spend money at Chick-fil-a. Personally, this will not impact my eating at Chick-fil-a because I don't look to them as a barometer for social or moral issues, only as experts in the field of chicken sandwiches.
John Sergent
2:47 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Precisely.
Ann Wood
5:12 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
You lost me in the "hate-filled" part. Not agreeing is not "hate." It's mostly hyperbole and completely unfair. As a matter of fact, there are lots of people who consider your comment "hate-filled."
John Sergent
5:38 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Ann: Do you not recognize a difference in substance between merely disagreeing with someone and actively working to deprive them of legal rights, especially when done by spreading deliberate lies as the FRC does? Do you really not see how dishonest it is to characterize the latter as nothing more than the former?
Omar Hallum
2:22 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Do you not support any organization you wish to support? Would it be right to "boycott" you because of that? Last I looked, (pre Obama) this was a free nation, and you could support anything or any cause without any recourse, so long as it was a legal entity. Mr Cathey has the right just as you do to do with what you want with your money. I believe it is a private owned business, and the government has no ownership rights (although they are trying to CHANGE that.) You know, that hopey changey thingy! God help us all!
Sally
8:13 am on Saturday, July 21, 2012
WOW! Big shock. Chick Fil A, which doesn't open on Sunday because of their religious beliefs, doesn't support gay marriage. Huge shock!!
I will continue to eat at CFA, as much as I ever did. I expect they aren't too worried about those who won't.
John Sergent
2:49 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Not a big shock. Just a disappointment... as is finding out you *seem* to think that anyone with strong religious beliefs is automatically anti-gay. That's nowhere even near the truth.
veronica chaffin
11:42 am on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Nancy - CFA is a business,not an organization, yes? And could you pls be more specific....what hate-filled anti-gay organizations does CFA support? And does CFA support these unnamed orgs you mentioned or does Truett and Dan Cathy as private individuals? Please clarify if you can or perhaps you are repeating a media sound bite that didnt provide actual fact? Whether I agree with Mr. Cathy or Brad Pitt's mom, I thought we lived in a country where freedom of speech and diversity of beliefs was the goal of the US as a nation. Oh...until those beliefs are in opposition to the left? Or the media? Or Hollywood? Or even the majority? I go to CFA to eat, not to discuss politics. I am certain if I talk to anyone long enough, I will disagree with them on some issue even people of my religion and political party which is a good thing - we should not be locked into views 100% based on groups we belong to but have a free thinking mind but my point is - if I banned businesses, people, movies, shops, etc based on views different than my own, I would never leave my house!!! I commend all that put their views out there based on their basic right to do so. As said above, free speech is great until someone says something you dont want to hear and that is what we are hearing about CFA from those folks that are always screaming diversity....until it is not their diversity!!!
John Sergent
2:52 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
The FRC is one such organization. Family Research Council, though they do nothing to benefit any families and only publish "research" when it was loaded from the beginning to produce the results they want, rather than, as all legitimate research does, seek to find out the truth regardless of what those doing it would like the results to be. Basically, they exist for the purpose of creating and spreading lies, neither more nor less.
Kirsten Dillard
12:51 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Here is a link to the charities that Chick-Fil-A supports and what they have done in the past.
http://equalitymatters.org/factcheck/201111010001
jensky bench
1:16 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
I agree with CFA. Seems like gays want to bully people to agree with their perverted and disgusting ways. Hats of to Mr. Cathy to standing up for what he believes in and not being bullied by the gays like Obama was.
Mark
1:27 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
You think that the gay issue is shocking. I was shocked to find out that the Cathy Family owns a cattle ranch in GA that sells beef. I haven't eatin' there since. http://www.therockranch.com/indx-about.html
KO Smith
8:50 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
Makes sense. The Dwarf House Restaurants serve burgers, chicken, and other foods, like most other restaurants. The CFA that everyone gets to enjoy today is here because Truett Cathy put in long hard hours of good honest work getting the restaurant up and running, treated his employees well and with high expectations, and used his brains to expand the business gradually over many, many years. (Sorry Obama, it was NOT given to him - most of America's successful entrepreneurs are that way because they worked extremely hard and made sacrifices and took risks.)
bob spencer
4:05 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Guess you have never been to Truetts. It's a resturant in Georgia that serves chicken and hamburgers,and sauage biscuits for breakfast. It's owened by the Cathy Family.
OakGroveParent
1:30 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Why can't a chicken sandwich be just a chicken sandwich?
Ann Wood
5:09 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
The first amendment still stands and owning a business doesn't nullify it. In addition, having an opinion is not the same as being intolerant. Cathy is entitled to his opinion and has never refused to serve anyone because they are gay. The hysterical reaction to this has been representative of the hypersensitivity and intolerance of much of the gay community and almost all of the gay leadership. They want tolerance - they should practice tolerance. Saying you do not approve of something is still okay in American and we should reject any groups efforts to change that. In fact, these overly intense responses have a negative effect. If you don't want to eat there because you don't like the food fine, to organize and encourage a boycott is obnoxious and uncalled for. Enough with the bullying.
John Sergent
5:47 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Having an opinion is, indeed, not the same as being intolerant. But does that not depend on what the opinion *is*? For example (and I hate to use this type of example, but it works) suppose the following conversation:
Shane: "Women shouldn't be allowed to vote. They just don't have the mental capacity to understand issues."
Jason: "That's a sexist attitude."
Shane: "How intolerant of you, calling me sexist for expressing my opinion!"
Does that really make sense? If not, why do people use the exact same rationale to complain at supposed "hypersensivity and intolerance" on THIS subject?
KO Smith
9:11 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
Well said. I am so tired of this double standard by much of the gay and lesbian community. They expect everyone to support their life choices and tip toe around being politically correct so we don't hurt anyone's feelings and then when folks express opinions that differ from theirs, they go into hysterics calling "foul" and saying they are being discriminated against. The first amendment goes both ways people! CFA should be put on a pedestal and admired for standing true to their solid biblical beliefs without bowing down to special interest groups and changing their principles and values just to appeal to more customers. CFA simply verified in an answer to an interview question what their beliefs are, which by the way are shared by many in this country. Unlike the gay and lesbian community's tendancy to demand that everyone believe in their beliefs or be labled (by them) as spreading hate, CFA, myself, and millions of others choose to stand up for our own values while also understanding that everyone else is entitled to his/her own differeing opinions.
Ann Wood
6:29 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
John - your example illustrates my point while at the same time misses the point. The reason people consider most of the gay community and their most ardent supporters intolerant is because they have become more and more so. I deal with lots of men who are sexist to varying degrees - none of us are perfect and we are not going to agree on all issues personal and political. I don't spend all my time "righting injustices" done in the name of sexism. And as the gay community has become more intolerant and strident, Hollywood may be bow to their insistence that to not be marching with a rainbow flag 24/7 is to be lower than dirt, most people recognize that there are degrees of awareness and agreement on most issues. It's how you treat others that matters and the founder and leadership of chick-fil-a are wonderful examples of people who lead good lives and do good. Many of us don't consider Hollywood or Washington to be the arbiters of morality and goodness. As they have become more intolerant of a diversity of opinions we have become less interested in their opinion. You seem like a nice guy. I don't care whether you are gay or straight. Live your life as a good person and we're good. But don't try to tell me what I should believe or label me if I don't agree with you. If you can't see the fairness in that, then you must be in a leadership position in the gay community.
John Sergent
6:39 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
I hope you will answer this; the answer is not contained in what you've said so far.
If someone expresses a sexist opinion, is it wrong to label it as such? Yes or no first, then if not, why not?
If someone expresses a racist opinion, is it wrong to label it as such? And so on.
Because you seem to be saying that it's wrong to describe someone who opposes legal rights for gay people anti-gay, and I see no difference whatsoever. Since you, apparently, DO see a difference, it would be nice if you'd explain where the difference lies instead of going off on irrelevancies about Washington and Hollywood.
X
6:45 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Ann - You clearly don't understand the issue.
X
6:50 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
Ann - It's not moral, nor is it a Christian value to donate money to groups that work to harm gay people and their children. It's not moral, nor is it a Christian value to donate money to groups that falsely equate homosexuality with pedophilia. It's not moral, nor is it a Christian value to donate money to groups that appear on national TV advocating that homosexuality be criminalized and that gay people be deported. How you deport U.S. citizens from their own country is beyond me. Chick-Fil-A donates money to organizations that do all of these things.
Ann Wood
8:57 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
John, I will answer your question and would request that you respond to my answer. As in, I would like to know whether you find holding such views acceptable. Is it wrong to apply a label to a comment or opinion - no. I don't think it is wrong to label something - what I find wrong and disturbing is the demonizing of opinions that do not conform to your own. What I and someone else might find sexist or racist may differ - there are gray areas. Many conservatives are labeled as racists for their opposition to Pres. Obamas policies. Do I find that wrong - yes. Are those who are doing so using their personal yardstick or even misusing the label for personal or political reasons. Sometimes. You state that I'm saying it's wrong to describe someone who opposes legal rights for gay people as anti-gay. Legal rights, as in housing, employment and such or legal rights as in the right to change the definition of marriage to suit their personal desires. I am straight and Christian and long before it was fashionable stood up for "gay rights." As in, people have the right to live where they want, when they want, work where they are qualified and live without ridicule or intimidation. As far as "gay marriage" - just don't see it. It feels like the issue is really a demand for approval of a lifestyle of which I don't approve. No civil unions - that's all back of the bus for you. I find the unwillingness to consider another point of view very off-puting.
John Sergent
9:53 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
There is no "unwillingness to consider another point of view" here. There is an unwillingness to treat a point of view which is discriminatory as being on equal ground.
In the same manner, I will not fall for the deceit of it just being about marriage. That may be true for some individuals... at least until they bother to examine their positions more closely. It's never true for organizations, and very rarely true of arguments used against same sex marriage. (And the whole bit about "changing the definition" is a meaningless rephrasing. Define something as excluding this, then say it can't include it because it's defined as excluding it. If that's not begging the question precisely, it's close enough.) Virtually every argument against gay marriage is really an argument against gay sex and/or gay orientation; the exceptions are appeals to tradition, which is also a logical fallacy. This includes your own claims: the line about "approval of a lifestyle of which I don't approve" gives it away. The arguments fall roughly into two categories: "I don't like it," which is as irrelevant to determining other people's legal rights as your preference for mayonnaise over ketchup, or "God doesn't like it," which is irrelevant in any system which claims to value religious freedom.
As far as I'm concerned, holding any views you like is fine by me. Acting in a way that harms people, including denying them the same legal rights other people have INCLUDING marriage, is not.
bob spencer
4:22 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
You must read the bible alot as much as you know about it, but that is not the real point here. Look to you own heart, and you will know the truth. Men should not judge men, or women only god can do that. If you reallly beleive what you say, you may be wrong or you may be right. I will not judge you, but be assured God will, whether you believe in him or not makes little difference you will be judged according to what you believe, and your works in thsi life. Make a choice. Just be sure it's the right one. Cathy and family has made theirs.
Jim Bobber
10:32 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
For anyone that had no idea that CFA was not supportive of gay marriage prior to all this, are you living in a cave??
Regarding where CFA puts its money: is CFA actively encouraging the genocide of gays, or inciting hatred of gays around the world??
There are numerous large US companies that actually supported the 3rd Reich during WWII, and some of them continue to support its bigotry today. This troubles me more than CFA's support for male-female marriage. If we're going to scrutinize companies based on where they put their money, there are companies that actually support the bullying/death/disenfranchisement of people around the world. CFA is not one of them.
Why isn't anyone outraged over businesses run by people of other religion(s) that are notoriously homophobic?
X
11:55 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
CFA is inflicting harm on gays by supporting organizations whose goal is to harm gay people and their children. CFA is not a Christian business. Christianity isn't about harming people.
Ann Wood
11:35 pm on Saturday, July 21, 2012
John, thanks for stating your true feelings. Unless someone approves and embraces the gay marriage strong-arm they are discriminating. Not believing that gay marriage is needed is not discriminatory anymore than not believing polygamy is a good idea. Or are you the kind of "hater" that wants new rules for me but not for thee? Not seeing gay marriage as a good thing is not harming anyone. You have the same legal rights available and have been sleeping with whoever you want for how long? You are insisting that you are "right" while taking offense if others do the same. How tolerant. In addition to religious freedom in America, we have the first amendment. You claim it and so do I. We don't agree so you must be a heterophobe and an intolerant bigot.
John Sergent
12:12 am on Sunday, July 22, 2012
"Unless someone approves and embraces the gay marriage strong-arm they are discriminating."---False. First, because you depict it as a "strong-arm" in the first place, not only because you ignored all I said about the reasons behind your position mattering more than the position itself, but mainly because you are substituting "approve" and "embrace" for the proper, and totally different in meaning, term: "allow." That you don't approve is your business and yours alone. That you work to prevent marriage is not.
The "new rules for me but not for thee" line is a nice sleight of hand attempt at reversing positions, but it doesn't work, because the positions which are opposed on this issue are not equally situated.
(Sorry, this is going to take more than one reply because of the idiotic character limit.)
John Sergent
12:20 am on Sunday, July 22, 2012
(2)
"You have the same legal rights available and have been sleeping with whoever you want for how long?"---Well, first, not that it's any of your business, but I sleep alone, thank you. But supposing I did have a mate. In order for us to have the same sort of relationship (which is what marriage is about) as a husband and wife, he would necessarily be a man. But I'm not legally allowed to marry a man. So the "same legal rights" claim, too, is true only in a deliberately and dishonestly (by those who come up with such things, not necessarily by everyone who merely repeats them because they sound good) superficial manner. Essentially, the idea is that gay people have the same rights because they can marry someone of the opposite sex. But it's the gay couple and the straight couple who are equivalently situated, and therefore they are the ones who must, by basic constitutional principles, be treated alike under the law.
You are welcome to hold any opinion you like. It's beyond absurdity, though, to demand that people not form opinions of you based on what you say.
As for "We don't agree so you must be a heterophobe and an intolerant bigot," that is, of course, nonsense. You are advocating in favor of civil law treating gay people as less than straight people. In order to reverse that on me, therefore, I would have to be advocating, not for equality as I do, but instead for treating straight people as less than gay people. Only then would "bigot" or "heterophobe" fit.
H Levy
1:11 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
Personally, I have always thought their food sucked and was highly overrated when compared to others like Bojangles, Popeye's and KFC. It a fried piece of chicken with no flavor. Oh, that’s right; the pickle slice provides the flavor! That being said, when Cathy makes a conscience decision to mix business with religion, he opens himself up for support for some and backlash from others. He has the right to express his views and the public has a right to reject his business.
He has invaded my alma mater where he sits on the board and in some opinions, made Berry College too financially dependent on Cathy and which in turn has compromised the ability for Berry to attract a broader student candidate pool, thus losing some competitive edge over more secular oriented private schools by attracting top candidates. Again business decisions have repercussions. Shorter College is another example of a failed attempt to inject religious philosophy into business. Shorter is now shorter on student enrollment and faculty. Good decision?
As many people, I think he stands on the wrong side of the argument and I am sure his PR personnel are working overtime. I personally will not eat there, because the food sucks and the owner feels a need to inject religion into my order of fries. It will likely go the same way as the Krispy Kreme fad, into the crapper, when a national market tastes their food.
Ann Wood
1:59 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
John, thanks for your answer. I used the labels heterophobe and bigot because those are similar or like those thrown around by those who have decided anything less than full support for changing the marriage laws to include gays are worthy of insult. Clearly you and I do not agree. I don't see gays as an underclass shut out by society and therefore being entitled to special rights. You obviously see the issue differently. You are entitled to work for your outcome as am I. As for stripping away rights - I can't take away something that isn't there. Gay advocates are for creating something new. You have dismissed many of my statements and arguments and frankly I find yours hollow and false. As far as labeling gay marriage a civil right - many civil rights leaders find the comparison false. We can dance all day, but the bottom line is I'm not going to convert you and you will not convert me. I do think that a civilized discussion is never a bad thing.
Dom
2:12 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
People vote with their dollars...Looks to me like Chck's doin just fine...
Ann Wood
2:15 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
You've got to be pretty small and partisan to object to a company that operates as stated :
The Chick-fil-A culture and service tradition in our restaurants is to treat every person with honor, dignity and respect – regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender. We will continue this tradition in the over 1,600 Restaurants run by independent Owner/Operators. Going forward, our intent is to leave the policy debate over same-sex marriage to the government and political arena.
They support charities that support traditional values. That is not a crime or cause for censure by reasonable people.
The mayor of Boston is an idiot and everyone should push back.
John Sergent
2:36 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
Indeed, that would be a strange thing to object to. Notice, though, that people AREN'T objecting to their treating their customers and employees with respect, etc. People are objecting with what they do with some of the profits afterwards.
And supporting traditional values does not require donating to organizations which exist for the purpose of denigrating a class of people for being who they are, especially when done by spreading lies. And that's precisely the FRC's speciality.
John Sergent
2:26 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
Responding to a comment by Ann Wood which I cannot find....
"I don't see gays as an underclass shut out by society and therefore being entitled to special rights."
---I, too, appreciate civilized discussion, especially when it's all honest and above board. So perhaps, since you say you do as well, you will answer a question that most people simply ignore when I ask: why do you refer to this as "special" rights? I don't want special rights. I want gay people, including our relationships, to be treated *exactly the same* as straight people and theirs. Please explain why that is demanding "special" rights, rather than equal ones.
"As for stripping away rights - I can't take away something that isn't there."---Of course not. I didn't say anything about stripping away rights, either. But the constitution promises equal treatment, and right now we don't have it. That's simply wrong, no matter how long it's been true.
"Gay advocates are for creating something new."--This statement is simply false on its face. We do not want something new. We want inclusion in something old. We want to add on ourselves, in a manner wholly consistent with its current modern form as a union of equals, to the existing concept of marriage; meanwhile, for reasons inexplicable to me (so perhaps you'll explain them) we are repeatedly and falsely depicted as attempting to demolish marriage entirely and replace it with something else totally unlike it except for the name.
Jim Bobber
4:50 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
I've looked through some of the links and I'm unable to find where CFA is supporting the genocide or oppression of gays. They make it clear: CFA supports the biblical definition of marriage, which is a man and a woman.
There are places in the world where gays and others are horribly oppressed. Surely this 'bigoted' and 'gay hating' company would be supporting these types of things, no??
I worked closely with a fifty-something gay man (in a long term relationship) that gave me much insight. He's not very political and doesn't care much about this issue one way or another. When he and his partner were younger (and 'hotter'), they basically didn't care if the other brought another guy home occasionally, as long as the guest didn't sleep over.
My coworker and his partner were committed to each other, but he openly admitted that since they're both dudes, he openly admitted that they didn't quite have the same 'checks and balances' that a typical M-F relationship has (women tend not to like their husbands bringing home other women).
It made sense: unisex relationships are NOT the same as opposite sex relationships. The woman tends not let her husband cheat. And this has been the foundation of successful societies for thousands of years. And IMO, gays are flat out lying when they portray otherwise.
IMO, CFA's position is the one held by most Americans and is the default: marriage is between a man and a woman.
Ann Wood
11:41 pm on Sunday, July 22, 2012
John For statements that are on their face false -
"We do not want something new. We want inclusion in something old. We want to add on ourselves." Oh, is that all. You just want to add on to the classic definition of marriage. Let's do this. This is all semantics - call it new or call it old it changes marriage as it has been known in our country and culture and "adds" on a group that have now redefined marriage. I have nowhere said that it would demolish marriage. That's hyperbole and those are your words. But it does change what has been the traditional definition and to deny that is "on it's face false." As for equal treatment - what you're demanding is special treatment not equal. As I said, I have not said gay marriage would demolish marriage but to insist that gay marriage and hetero marriage are the same thing is nonsense. Marriage is the foundation of society, the unit in which children are raised and nurtured. Look what the rise in divorce has done for the family and society - nothing good. No thanks to more experiments based on feel good psychology and changing mores.
John Sergent
12:16 am on Monday, July 23, 2012
You repeat the claim that it would be "special treatment not equal." You refused to answer the question of *why* "special" is the correct adjective and "equal" incorrect.
Not terribly surprising, since nobody I ever ask bothers to make a coherent reply to that question, but it would be nice for a change if someone would.
H Levy
11:03 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Ann believes in talking snakes and people that lived in whales You really think you can win a logical or intellectual discussion with her? Your time is better spent arguing with a squirrel.
Ann Wood
8:45 am on Monday, July 23, 2012
John, I'm not refusing anything. You are equally responsible to define why it is equal not special. But to answer your question, to change the parameters from the biblical definition to one that suits the times based on our determination that we know more is a big change and requires going outside the long held definition. There is nothing in marriage law that requires expanding the definition and so there is no "equal." There is only special allowances hence the special. I'm going out on a limb here to say that I'm sure you don't see it that way. But then it doesn't serve your agenda to see any point of view other than your own. I personally don't care about personal choices, I do think it is a very bad idea to alter in such a dramatic way the definition of marriage. And I also don't care what labels you or others want to put on that. Again, along with many traditionalists, I am over being bullied.
John Sergent
11:52 am on Monday, July 23, 2012
Unless you're trying to say "it's "special" instead of "equal" because the Bible and I don't like it," which has nothing to do with what the words "special" and "equal" actually mean, you still haven't bothered actually answering the question asked at all. To use an argument that's often misapplied in the other direction: how would removing the sex restriction from marriage law be a "special allowance" rather than equal treatment when it would mean that both gay and straight people would be free to marry either sex?
As for your last sentence, I'm sorry, but there's no point in sugar coating this. It's a bold-faced lie, pure and simple, that "traditionalists" are being bullied. And no, calling you out on a lie you tell is not bullying. Nor is refusing to accept your, and many on your side's, attempt at twisting this issue by painting it as if the sides were equivalently positioned and we're just being mean by not rolling over and accepting your position as the truth.
Others getting access to a privilege you previously had only to yourself is not persecution, nor bullying, nor any other evil-sounding name certain types of Christian like to pretend that it is.
Big Joe
8:16 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Bla Bla Bla who cares. If this ends up affecting my next trip to Chick Fil A I'm going to be upset!
OakGroveParent
9:55 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
I also will continue to patronize Chick-fil-a since, as stated before, I do not look to them for moral guidance, only kick ass chicken sandwiches. On a side note, I also happen to admire the wholesomeness of the chain, I love how polite and articulate the employees are, the stores are ALWAYS clean and any restaurant who is kind/brave/bold/generous enough to close for one day a week so tha people can have a day off with their families to go to church or whatever they choose to do gets an A+++++ in my book. I believe in our country and I believe in liberty and freedom. I believe that gay people should be able to marry. I believe that people should be able to donate their hard won profits to organizations and charities that they see fit, so long as it does not cause harm to people and this country. And no,I do not believe Chick-fil-a intended for their (small) $ 2 million donations amongst the pro-family organizations will even make a dent in the fight for gay marriage rights. If anything, all of this resulting saber rattling and drum beating will bring more attention to the cause for fighting for marriage equality. People should not be wasting their time complaining about a very measly $ 2 million donation that is divided amongst a variety of quite benign and peaceful Christian organizations thinking that it will have any impact at all on this battle. Focus your attention where it will count. Change the laws. You will never change the mind of the Cathy family.
John Sergent
12:29 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
That you call them "pro-family organizations" shows that either you don't understand what they're about or you don't consider gay people's families to be families.
Or you're unbelievably careless. Take your pick.
OakGroveParent
9:57 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
And nor should you. They have a right to believe what they believe just as you have a right to believe what you believe.
OakGroveParent
4:00 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Or..... d. None of the above
I happen to believe that gay families are every bit as much of a family as any family.
I have to say that I find it very distasteful and downright rude that you choose to attack or put words into the mouth of any person who dares to have a viewpoint that deviates from yours. You want freedom for yourself as a gay man (and I want for you to have that too) but you don't want for other people to be able to have the freedom to express their views (I want for them to be able to do that too). This falls into the same pathetic category as people labeling other people who don't approve of President Obama's performance in office as racist.
John Sergent
11:10 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
I've put no words in anyone's mouth. If the way I described what you said is inaccurate or unfair, I'll take your word for that... but in that case, please do explain what you *did* mean by calling groups which do nothing to support any families, and which indeed exist for the purpose of opposing families of which they do not approve, "pro family."
John Sergent
3:08 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
I can't help noticing you didn't even bother *addressing* the question in your reply (which I've gotten by email but hasn't shown here, the one with "advice" that's too obvious to qualify as such.)
Please, again: why DID you refer to those organizations as "pro family" if not for one of the reasons I listed which you say do not apply? I appreciate being corrected when I'm wrong, but there must *be* a reason, and if it is an honest and good reason then you will be glad to say what it is.
Ann Wood
8:57 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
It's so sad to see a great company like Chick-fil-A under attack for having the temerity to disagree with the "popular" philosophy today regarding gay marriage. This is an issue that touches on the most deeply held beliefs from religious to families with loved ones who are gay. It is possible to know or love someone who is gay, be a supporter and at the same believe that cultural changes that leave faith out of them are not in anyone's long term benefit. How sad that so many on the left stridently refuse to consider any point of view other than their own.
John Sergent
11:35 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
How sad that you insist on declaring this to be about their opinions when it's plainly their ACTIONS that people object to.
H Levy
11:11 pm on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Ann , no one cares about your religious beliefs. This is not Iran nor are we under religious law.
Ann Wood
12:26 am on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
H Levy, you seems to be confused. Religious freedom means freedom practice religion or to practice no religion. Your reference to Iran and religious law in reference to my comment shows you to be the zealot.
John, Chick-fil-A's actions are above reproach. Nowhere are they being charged of mistreatment of gays. You are holding them to a standard that is so rigid and unreasonable that you undermine your cause and your credibility.
John Sergent
1:28 am on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
How so?
Chris M.
3:17 am on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
While it is nice to see everyone expressing their opinion on the matter, there is something far more important to be concerned with. Instead of worrying about all the donations that CFA makes to these controversial organizations, we should make ourselves aware of which politicians receive campaign contributions from these groups. After all, these people have much more control over our lives than a fast food chain.
hannah b
12:27 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
If you dont agree with what they do, then dont eat there... how difficult is this? No one should be under personal attack on either side of the matter... someone offended a group of people because he doesnt have the same beliefs as them. not the first time, wont be the last. get over it.
OakGroveParent
2:54 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
John Sergent, two pieces of advice for you:
1. Don't eat at Chick-fil-a
2. Donate your time and money to organizations that you believe promote your personal agenda
It's your right. It's that simple. (It is also the right of those who feel differently than you do to do the same).
bob spencer
4:36 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Finally a true and just statement. I agree with Cathy, but i also agree with those who have the right to disagree. Peace be unto you all. Love you fellowman, or women, and let everyone have free will. For me, Right or wrong is only for God to judge, not men.
Ann Wood
11:26 pm on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
John, I'm tired to trying to answer your "questions" when a. you're not even sort of interested in any opinion that isn't your own, and b. it hasn't escaped notice that you don't answer any questions. So, questions for you - why the tireless vendetta against people who obviously treat others according to the golden rule but give to organizations of which you don't approve - why no perspective. Why the Hate? Why the vitriol? Why the hyper-sensitivity? Why the total lack of tolerance?
John Sergent
1:28 am on Thursday, July 26, 2012
It's simply and completely untrue that I'm not interested in opinions other than my own. You haven't given me a fair chance on that score, because you have refused to give straight, logical answers to questions, or even to *try* to refute anything I've said.
Meanwhile, yes, I do answer questions... provided they're coherent and do not contain an embedded false premise; if they do, I do the best I can with them. If I have missed a question of yours, please point it out and I'll see what I can do with it.
As for your questions listed here: "why the tireless vendetta..."---false premise. I have no such thing. "why no perspective."--ditto. That I refuse to admit the lie that this is merely about a difference of opinion is not, by any rational use of the phrase, a lack of perspective. It's insistence that arguments be based in honesty and truth.
No hatred from me either. No lack of tolerance. No hyper-sensitivity. So there's no possible way to answer "why" I have something I don't have, any more than it would be appropriate for most people to give a plain, yes or no answer to "did you ever stop beating your wife?"
John Sergent
1:31 am on Thursday, July 26, 2012
Sorry, to edit a bit... the second sentence should read "you haven't given me a fair chance on that score, because you have refused to provide logical *reasons* for the opinions you express even when directly asked, nor, when I've given reasons potential arguments you might use are, in my opinion, invalid, have you even tried to refute that logically.
OakGroveParent
4:49 am on Thursday, July 26, 2012
Ann, some people just like to argue and having a meaningful and open discussion is not possible. Unless you agree with them on all points, you will always be displeasing and inferior to them. It's a lose-lose situation. Your points have been very well articulated, Ann, but unfortunately not everybody has chosen to receive them in the spirit in which they were intended. Sorry!
OakGroveParent
4:20 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Geez, some of you people have printed some really ridiculous comments....
Chick-fil-a is against love and that Ann Ann believes in talking snakes and people that lived in whales.
Don't you realize that you lose all credibility when you go off on crazy ranting tangents like this?
How in the world you equate exercising first amendment and freedom to donate your hard earned money where you see fit to living in Iran is a less credible argument than a squirrel might make.
Come on, people! You are hurting your own cause.
John Sergent
10:22 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Why do you claim AFA, Exodus, etc are, in your words, "pro-family?"
bob spencer
4:47 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Believe in God,and accept Jesus as your personal savior, it's a win, win choice.
My choice is the one above,and to eat more chickin..
John Sergent
10:21 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Believing in God and accepting Jesus as savior, though, has absolutely nothing to do with an issue such as this where there are Christians on both sides.
John Sergent
10:32 am on Friday, July 27, 2012
Omar Hallum: "Do you not support any organization you wish?"--Of course. Would you mind explaining why you imply that anyone here is saying they don't have the right to do that?
"Would it be right to 'boycott' you because of that?" If you want to. Boycotting simply means choosing for yourself where to spend your money. Surely, based on your overall tone, that's a good thing to be able to do in your book?
"...without any recourse..." Legally, yes. You can't sue a business for donating to causes, no matter how disgusting they are (and the AFA really is nasty, if you bother looking into them.) The government can't tell them who to support and who not to. That doesn't mean that people who don't like where their money goes are being unfair or unreasonable in choosing to do business elsewhere.
"I believe it is a private owned business, and the government has no ownership rights (although they are trying to CHANGE that.)"---Would you mind, please, providing evidence of the claim that the government (or better yet, specifically the president) is trying to take over Chick-fil-A? It sounds too off the wall to take seriously, but if it's true then the sooner people find out about it the better.
myaaa alsoo
1:24 pm on Friday, July 27, 2012
I applaud CFA for standing by their beliefs.
Who cares if the butt pluggers boycott or not.
OakGroveParent
8:32 pm on Friday, July 27, 2012
Sadly, the PR Director/National Spokesman for Chick-fil-a died suddenly this morning of a heart attack. He was a very nice man who was doing his job and standing up for what he believed in. Who is to say what the cause was but I am guessing all of the controversy and vitriol that he was having to muddle through was just too much.
http://www.bradenton.com/2012/07/27/4131438/longtime-chick-fil-a-spokesman.html
John Sergent
2:16 am on Saturday, July 28, 2012
That *is* sad... though I don't doubt he went the right way.
I also don't doubt he now knows how wrong his company is.
Ann Wood
9:42 am on Saturday, July 28, 2012
John, you think his company is wrong - that is very different from the declarative that they are wrong. You reject that anyone has the right to say that homosexuality is wrong. What gives you the right to call CFA wrong? You like to ask questions, there's one for you. How is that not a double standard? And please, John, follow your stated standards - your reasons have to be logical to all not just to you.
John Sergent
12:49 pm on Saturday, July 28, 2012
I have the right to call CFA wrong because I, too, have freedom of speech, which is also the same reason, in turn, you have the right to say I'm wrong.
However, you've read too many of my posts to believe this is simply about their OPINIONS. As I've said many times, this is about their actions. Which they also have the right to do. How (yet again) is your complaint about people objecting to their actions, and perhaps using them as part of our decisions about how to spend our money, reconcilable with a desire for freedom of speech without falsely equating freedom of speech with its opposite, freedom from criticism?
"You reject that anyone has the right to say that homosexuality is wrong."---I do no such thing, and have never said or typed that in my life. If you see it anywhere, please quote it so I can see what you're talking about.
"How is that not a double standard?"---indeed it would be, if that were what I'd done. It's too obviously NOT true for you to have missed. Again, if you truly believe I've said any such thing, find it and quote it back at me. But no twisting my words into something they're not, such as taking my saying they're wrong to do something into your claim that I said they don't have the right to their opinion.