Hundreds Turn Out for Lakeside Cityhood Meeting
Under the Lakeside City Alliance's plan, residents of the Lakeside area could vote on cityhood as early as the fall of 2014.
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Several hundred residents turned out for the first public meeting of the Lakeside City Alliance on Wednesday night, and the vast majority said they supported a new movement that might lead to the newest municipality in northern DeKalb County as early as fall 2014.
When the alliance's head, Northlake resident Mary Kay Woodworth, asked the packed Lakeside High School auditorium whether it supported the exploration of a new city of Lakeside, most of the audience raised their hands. Only a small group said they were opposed to the idea.
"Everything we're doing tonight, it's about a starting point," Woodworth said. "We present this to you with an open mind."
The alliance announced its existence only a week ago, and Woodworth said the group was started by her and a "few neighbors," including former state Rep. Kevin Levitas, who headed a different recent cityhood effort in Oak Grove. Woodworth is executive director of the Georgia Urban Agriculture Council and a registered lobbyist.
But after releasing a proposed city boundary that would include most of the Lakeside High area and north to I-285 and much of the commercial district in west Tucker across the perimeter highway, the group has rapidly moved to the forefront of various cityhood movements and discussions in the larger North Druid Hills-Briarcliff area.
Any city in Georgia must offer at least three services, and the alliance proposed the following for a city of Lakeside on Wednesday: public safety, zoning and enforcement and parks and recreation. Woodworth said the alliance chose those three because they were most frequently mentioned by residents as areas that could be better governed locally rather than by DeKalb County.
The goal is to design a city that would not raise residents' taxes beyond what they currently pay the county, Woodworth said. And while displeasure with inefficiency in county government has spawned most cityhood chatter in this area, Woodworth reminded the audience a new city would in no way address the county's beleaguered school system. New city school districts remain prohibited under the state's constitution, and changing that is an uphill, uncertain battle, she said.
But, Woodworth added, "no city school system could be created if a city is not formed.
"People are complaining, so let's see what we can do about that."
Many details about the city remain unanswered, and Levitas said the meeting was about recruiting residents to work with the alliance. Though residents did not speak at the meeting, Woodworth did take written questions from the audience, most of which dealt with how the proposed boundary was drawn and why certain neighborhoods or areas were included or excluded.
Several asked why the Sagamore Hills and Leafmore communities were excluded from the proposed city. Those communities have been holding their own cityhood discussions, Woodworth said, and the alliance did not want to interfere. But she said the group was open to extending the boundary of the proposed city to any areas interested. Another resident suggested including the North Druid Hills and Toco Hill commercial areas.
"We can certainly look at this," Woodworth said. "Something to discuss."
Since the path to cityhood is a roughly two-year effort, the alliance said it would like to persuade legislators to submit a "placeholder" bill for the new city by the end of this year's session. That would allow the legislature to consider it next year, and, if successful, residents would be able to vote on it in the fall of 2014, Woodworth said. That process would also include a state-mandated feasibility study by the University of Georgia's Carl Vinson Institute of Government that costs about $30,000 – money that would need to be raised from prospective city residents, Levitas said.
"We cannot do this alone," he said. "And we need your money. Anything you can give, we need. ... We need your time. We need your expertise. ... It's got to be a grassroots movement that starts with you."
Several residents asked why the boundary included strictly commercial districts such as the Century Center area off Clairmont Road and west Tucker across I-285. Any city needs a proper balance of commercial and residential property, Woodworth said, or the city will be funded solely on the backs of its residents.
"The boundaries are created to get that mix," Levitas said.
Woodworth also said the alliance doesn't see I-85 or I-285 as obvious demarcation lines.
But the alliance must also contend with a county-led effort to squash new cities or large annexations of commercial in DeKalb County. A bill sponsored by state Rep. Mary Margaret Oliver, D-Decatur, would require new cities to conduct an study on their financial impact to the county and nearby cities. County government leaders have complained for years about the financial drain caused by new incorporations, including Dunwoody and Brookhaven.
Alliance organizers said local control over governance is a primary reason for pursuing cityhood. But Woodworth also said the alliance is not advocating cityhood, only studying the issue.
"You may not believe that, and that's your prerogative," she said. "None of us have an agenda."
The alliance will hold future meetings though no date was settled Wednesday night.
Sally
7:26 am on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Well, I do believe this group are in favor of forming a city. Why would they do this otherwise? Hopefully they are open minded at this point though. And it sounds like they are. I couldn't go to the meeting but drove by at one point. The parking lots were packed. Closely following.
Brett
8:11 am on Thursday, February 14, 2013
I'm curious about what you mean by "open minded." What is it you would like to see?
don Gabacho
1:15 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
I'm curious about what you mean by "open minded." ----Brett
"It (the elimination of "an advisory board [of citizens] called community counsil hears applications before they advance to the [in Brookhvens' case: appointed planning commission])" eliminates an entire month in the zoning process..."---Rebecca Chase Williams; former member of Citizens for North DeKalb and now Councilwoman for the City of Brookhaven.
Herman Lorenz
9:16 am on Thursday, February 14, 2013
I think this is great. There are dozens of "ifs", "wheres" and "hows"; but something definitely needs to be done. Anyone can pick at the details, but I applaud this group for getting started. There's a lot still to be done.
Tom Doolittle
9:36 am on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Mary Kay more fundamentally distinguished her group as "civic association" when she said the Alliance wasn't an advocacy group. This is when she mentioned the group would be chartered as a 501-c-4, rather than 501-c-3. This is not a small distinction.
In fact, an alliance such as this will have a very difficult time continually reminding people of this. In fact, even the notion of an "exploratory" effort should be parsed. The assumption is that it is exploring what? People will say "explore cityhood". She will have to say "exploring options".
Options for what? Options for controlling parks, zoning control and law enforcement. There are only three options I see for those services:
Annexation, State mandated changes to the county government and city-hood. Annexation would demean the stated primacy of drawing a "commuity of interest" because it would split the current map into about three current cities. That will be a "no" right out of the gate--unless smaller interest groups emerge.
State mandated changes to government including no CEO, increasing the number of county commissioners, forming more responsive departmental structures, impact fees--all amount to tinkering--and would be a waste of five years work-and subject to numerous watering down negotiations. There is one fundamental change the legislature can make, but it would be statewide.
That leaves cityhood. In any case, we'll build community and define "communities"--the work of "civic associations".
Cheryl Miller
10:03 am on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Tom, you said 'there is one fundamental change the legislature can make, but it would be statewide." Did I miss something? Please ... what's the one fundamental change??
I am glad you are offering a voice of reason to the discussion. Fear and retreat do not make good business partners.
Tom Doolittle
11:05 am on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Local control as merged with "the county unit" are fundamental to the Georgia Constitution. Cities serve at county units pleasure. The county unit essentially cannot be replaced in this state--and is only tinkered with "one city domino at a time" with grave circumstances, some forseen like--loss of county revenue and financial blackmail against remaining unincorporated areas to become cities. More are unforseen. That's what happens with half-measures. That why Con Law exists--to challenge irresponsible legislated action and go back to drwaing board--wayyyy back.
A statewide referendum is now needed to force COUNTIES to devolve their power in counties over a certain population that has been providing city-like services--or population density. Entire counties would be divided into cities under comprehensive land use law.
Forcing the devolution of power (over say 10 years) would take away the convenient excuse that Dunwoody originally used--that the county wouldn't cooperate.
This would be done under comprehensive land use reform--and would determine how all counties form new cities--not doing constitional amendments to form one city at a time. Irresponsible, arrogant and downright stupid long term.
Cheryl Miller
9:51 am on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Hasn't anyone heard of "divide and conquer" as a strategy used to defeat large masses of people who are too stupid to realize there was strength in their numbers? By trying to isolate themselves rather than trying to be part of the solution, this movement will only bring more harm than good.
Lakeside's graduation rates have already dropped below that of Tucker and Redan High Schools. The Realtors are panicking because they can no longer use the school as the reason to bring in new buyers. And they want to jack everyone's taxes up so they can foreclose on older homes, level them and build McMansions to sell to a new generation of gullible buyers.
Same story, new chumps. Good luck with that. Please watch "Desparate to 'Cell' Houses' - Lakeside Area in DeKalb County." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-iDvHddfac&list=PLFBD77640541CA7A9&index=4
Meanwhile, all that money and good intentions could be going toward actually running for office or helping with the movement to throw out the school board and get better leadership to help all the schools and thus all the home values in the county.
bulldogger
6:55 pm on Sunday, February 17, 2013
Hi, Cheryl Miller,
Lakeside's graduation rates have already dropped below that of Tucker and Redan High Schools.
WHY????????????? have they???????????
Eldridge Harrington
1:26 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Would it be possible for the Georgia Urban Ag Council to benefit from this city's development, particularly through control of parks and rec?
Carrie Redwine
11:51 am on Thursday, February 21, 2013
What the area needs more than anything is some decent GREEN SPACE! The GA Urban Agriculture Council and their active lobbyists should focus on tearing down the all-you-can-eat Chinese Buffet on Northlake Parkway that blocks beautiful North Lake from view, and turn the entire area into a lakeside park - and also we obviously need a makeover of Northlake Mall which looks very run down.
Jeep Hook
2:35 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Absurd idea! no real city center, no heart and soul or business district, this is thinly disguised racism, rich white folks who want to"protect" themselves! they should be ashamed!
BTW I'm one of the rich white folks that live in the area too!
N.G.
4:47 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Why in the world would you fault white people for wanting what is best for their families? I am white, I am upper middle class, and I have a family. Guess what? My family means more to me than political correctness. If I have to take a few misguided jabs from people like you who always think you have the moral high ground if you throw the word "racism" into, then so be it. Why do you think Lakeside's grad rate is down, you fool? I for one am not ashamed of any cityhood efforts and I don't apologize for them or wanting to protect my way of life.
Sally
7:38 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
Sorry, constant use of the race card has highly diluted it's effect.
Tom Doolittle
9:18 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
Jeep:
What does "protection" mean? Beyond the apocalyptic survivalist, what would some legitimately expect to secure by forming a city?
We'll never get to the core of what kind or what is the signifficance in the long run of racism in involved with "new city-making"--or whether we're really talking about bigotry or classism. There are university research projects looking at that--the "city-making" trend is nationwide.
The complaint of latent bigotry (whether ethnicity, class, income) in "city-making" is the same as with traditional ethnic enclaves have formed since man began to walk upright.
--I lived in Guyana where there were essntially no whites, but there was plenty of class separation. The conflict was between blacks and East Indians, while the elite former white mulatto watched and profited.
--I graduated H.S. in 1975 in Manassas, VA, where there were so few black families that the primary "separation" was between "townies" with their patronage legacy and "county-folks". Cocktail parties or fish fries?
--Henderson High used to have an all day pep rally called "Farmer Day" when they played Tucker High in football.
--what was the coversation when Lakeside got the nod over Henderson to remain a high school?
Who's to say whether or not city formation is only happening in affluent commuities because they have the strong connections and history to do it--and its not affluence or race, but "strength and power"?
don Gabacho
12:19 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
"Absurd idea! no real city center, no heart and soul or business district, this is thinly disguised racism."----Jeep Hook
It is the beginning of 'corporatist' governace for Lakeside.
Brett
3:37 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Jeep - you should save yourself some time and move to the hood. They don't like white people either.
Lou
6:03 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Of course the majority at the meeting were FOR the city of Lakeside. Those of us who have no interest in changing the name of our city from "Atlanta" to "Lakeside" would not bother to show up. Count me among those--and I suspect we'll be in the majority in the long run. Why would those of us who object to such a movement show up to hear those who want to change our community--and not even permit those against to say a word?? AND I am an upper-middle-class WASP and have lived in this community for several decades, serving as a PTA president at a 30345 public school. I will fight tooth and nail to keep my Atlanta address which is why I moved here in the first place, along with Lakeside's reputation as the top public high school in the metro area. As pointed out in the summary of the meeting, a city of "Lakeside" will not change the status of our area schools--not now and with no promise of future change. Then what on earth is this all about?? House taxes? Mine went down considerably when I appealed as was permitted. This fight has only begun and I fear what it will come to. Mary Kay, I don't know you, but you have opened a vicious can of worms.
N.G.
8:44 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
Lou -- why do you want an Atlanta address? Not judging at all, really; just curious.
As far as what a smaller more focused government can do for us, I personally think the list is endless. It is about gaining more control of your tax dollars and redirecting them to services that you actually use and that benefit you more directly. Right now, South DeKalb is a mess; it has one of the highest foreclosure rates in the country. Our hard-earned taxes are disproportionately supporting all the services that those residents receive. If we can recapture that money we can see better parks, for example, and a better police force. About a month ago, I saw a suspicious man walking in my neighborhood and do you know that it took a DeKlab cop over a half an hour to arrive at my house (at 1 am with no traffic). On top of that, he had an attitude when he arrived and could not sufficiently explain his delay. In contrast, the City of Decatur and Sandy Springs are extremely choosey about who they hire on their police force, so you are much more likely to get better service and less corruption.
I just don't see the can of worms that you fear. I think these people are being as transparent and inclusive as they can; you may disagree with that, but I don't know what there isn't to like about this proposal. I'm from New England and every thriving, decent town up there is small in government scale. This huge DeKalb government has proven that it is racially biased and incompetent, period.
Sally
7:40 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
Gosh, you people need to learn the facts before you speak. First of all, this area is not in the city of Atlanta. Thank goodness!!! That is simply our mailing address. Forming another city, whatever it is called, will not change that. Only the post office can change your mailing address. One has nothing to do with the other.
RandyRand
6:22 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
For all the Chicken Little’s out there relax, attend a meeting or two, consider what you like and dislike about our area and viable steps for better value for every tax dollar. When did exploring options become the equal to opening a vicious can of worms? And Lou, your sacred ATL address is currently more in jeopardy of becoming "the City of Dekalb"
Lou
6:41 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
How so, RandyRand??
RandyRand
8:37 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
There have been several reported efforts and here is one just a few months ago. http://www.ajc.com/news/news/cityhood-for-dekalb-county-under-study/nSfmq/
Lets get real
10:16 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
"None of us have an agenda" Woodworth said. Should this pass and I hope it doesn't, we shall see who's the first to run for Mayor, just like Brookhaven and Peachtree Corners, we knew who was going to be "in charge" from day one. I'm disappointed in Kevin as well, seems wherever there is a city hood movement he's showing up to promote it. While I will be the first to say DeKalb County has serious issues and its government needs a complete overhaul, starting with getting rid of the CEO position and booting career politicians, this constant push to jump ship isn't going to help any of us. If all these city hood folks would put one third the effort into helping fix DeKalb as they do jumping up and down about forming new layers of government, we could actually make some real progress. You can run from the problems folks, but you can't hide, it's not going to go away its just going to get worse. Enjoy the ride....
don Gabacho
3:33 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
""None of us have an agenda" Woodworth said.'"---Let's Get Real
How's this for "an agenda"?
State Senator Fran Millar (District 40: Dunwoody) has proposed a 'non-partisan' election for DeKalb County CEO---only.
The proposed legislation does not include any election, (purportedly) 'non-partisan' or not, for the City of Brookhaven where the CEO is to be appointed---who, in turn, (supposedly) appoints even the City's (non-elected) Police Chief.
Millar said the (purportedly) 'non-partisan' election of the county's CEO "would bring the county together."
So? Why not these new city inventions?
How is it that what must be good for the goose must not be good for the gander?
What is Lakewood's alliance proposing?
More elected officials or appointed?
Skeptic
11:08 pm on Thursday, February 14, 2013
What is so wrong with the Lakeside area that it needs city hood? The three things changing hands to local control as proposed are public safety, zoning and enforcement, and parks. Jeep is right - this is thinly disguised racism. Three things that are not a problem in the "City of Lakeside" are public safety, zoning and enforcement, and parks. Those are three things the "City" already has going for it, they are basically the area's main selling point. If the success of Lakeside is the product of existing UNI government and development, then why can't the proponents of Lakeside City be more active promoting change in the current system of governance? And yes, having an Atlanta address without being in COA is a great benefit to DeKalb County residents. Think about how your new city might be perceived from the outside, and how it has zero name recognition. Atlanta is and should continue to be recognized as an international location, not as a hodgepodge network of exclusive white enclaves.
Lou
1:22 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
Re: "Skeptic's" comment: I couldn't have said it better. A city of Lakeside has "zero name recognition." "Lakeside" might as well be on the Florida or Alabama line. I've traveled much of the Western world and to some of the Third World and to ID where I am from meant one word, Atlanta, with not even a state name added to it. There was instant recognition of "Atlanta" everywhere often followed in sometimes broken English by a reference to "Gone with the Wind," Coca Cola, or CNN. Our Atlanta addresses are instantly recognized. As much as I love living in the Lakeside area of DeKalb County, I'll repeat it again: I'll fight tooth and nail to keep my recognizable Atlanta address. I've always seen it as a plus to, as "Skeptic" said, "have an Atlanta address without being in COA."
N.G.
11:43 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
I have traveled extensively also and continue to travel extensively. My mailing address is Decatur but I always just say that I'm from Atlanta b/c that is more well-known. I'm not trying to deceive anyone, but I do feel like I'm part of the metro-Atlanta area and it makes sense to just say Atlanta. I don't really see what the big deal is, but I could be missing something. It just seems like such a small detail to be concerned about, honestly.
Tom Doolittle
12:58 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
NG--et al--here's something that may not affect residents in terms of your location, but I've considered since the Northlake business district lost a lot of destination customers over the past 15 years (without the mall continuing as a prime attraction)
When you say you live in Decatur, I immediately think of the cute little circumference around downtown. Is that where you live or in North Decatur or Candler Decatur.
Wierdly, like Tucker's zip, North Decaturs 30033 goes all the way to the Northlake library. Does Decatur have two libraries? Most people would say "no". It do, as I explained.
If I say "Best Buy in Tucker"--most people furrow their brow and say there's no Best Buy in Tucker.
Does Tucker really have two Chick Fil-A's?
Addresses and specific names are important for local "vision"--confusion costs business.
When there was an article about the murderer in the aweful pink carastrophe of a house on Henderson Mill Rd near Embry--in the New York Times--it said the house was in Chamblee. Yes--30341 goes all the way accross I-85 past Mercer to Henderson Mill to Henderson High School er--Middle school. When I said "house in Chamblee" what did you envision? Did you care a murderer built the house and lived there? Probably not--not in your neighborhood (or mine) or Lakeside's--right? Wrong.
N.G.
3:11 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
I don't know -- I guess I haven't thought too hard about this. It seems to be a very minor issue in terms of the more immediate challenges that some of our communities face. And, seriously, I think it's ok to say you are from Atlanta when you are in Italy. I mean, come on. I actually say that I'm from New York and I currently live in Atlanta. Maybe I feel more a part of the City of Atlanta because I work in Midtown; I mean, i feel very integrated into all the pros and cons of the city so it feels genuine to say that I'm from Atlanta.
Tom Doolittle
3:29 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Interesting thing happened just the other day. I asked where a neighbor was from and he said Washington DC. People have said they were from DC when I was outside of Virginia forever (obviously they don't say DC when they live in Virginia)--and they never, ever were from the city. Well--I said, Md or Va? (those are the burbs in our nations capitol area for the unaquainted). He says--Washington DC! "You lived in the city?--No one I have ever met after I left that area has lived in the city." (you see, its either the city or it isn't when you're giving directions or describing where you live to someone in the region).
Do you folks really say you live in Atlanta when you're talking to someone in Marietta? C'mon. I say the Northlake area--if that doesn't stick I say near Tucker. If that doesn't work I say (yes--I do) DeKalb County.
N.G.
4:13 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Yeah, if I'm talking to someone local or even regional, I would maybe specify Decatur because I would assume they have heard of it and know of it. It's all who y our audience is, I suppose. A merchant in Greece is more likely to have heard of Atlanta than Decatur, and if they seem to be knowledgeable and curious about Atlanta I may mention that I live in Decatur. To be extremely honest, and I may take heat from this, but so be it, I usually say I'm from New York (which I am and still have spent the majority of my life there) because I feel more like a New Yorker than anything else and I also think it's cooler to say New York than Atlanta. I know the man above references CNN, etc., but it's all kind of lame stuff compared to real cities.
Carrie Redwine
12:02 pm on Thursday, February 21, 2013
Lou I agree with you! If I had wanted to live in the suburbs and be associated with a sub-city I would not have moved to ATLANTA! (and no you can not receive mail addressed "Atlanta" if you live in Decatur, Stone Mountain, Tucker, Roswell, Lilburn, Avondale Estates or any other metro sub-city)
Sally
7:44 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
The name is just one more little detail. They had to put a name on it to start the discussion. Just like they had to come up with a map. Depending on what the boundaries of any proposed new city is, that name could easily be changed before it becomes reality.
Frankly, it would be fine with me to simply be annexed by another, already existing, city. Brookhaven or Chamblee. Either would be fine with me. What is not fine with me is continuing with the current Dekalb County mess.
Brett
9:12 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
I haven't formed an opinion on this issue yet, but I'm certainly in favor of considering all options. The one thing I find particularly disgusting is the constant use of the race card. I live in the heart of Oak Grove and have successful White, Black, Asian, and Middle Eastern neighbors that all want what's best for them and their children.
Lately, many discussions in my neighborhood have centered around the perception that our area is taking a turn for the worst. Some of us are not impressed by Lakeside, and crime seems to be on the rise. Some are already talking about moving before home values deteriorate dramatically. I can't see how that would be a good thing for anyone that chooses to stay.
I'm not sure what "cityhood" would accomplish, but I'm certainly willing to consider any ideas that would lead toward improvement.
Tom Doolittle
9:34 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
Brett:
You're referring to Lakeside High? What are you and your neighbors looking for that Lakeside isn't doing/doesn't have?
(City or no city, this is a great question for us all to grapple with during this process--for instance, are graduation rate stats really accurate--or more importantly relevant?)
More general to your comment--what do you and your neighbors value as a complete tapestry of quality of life that you think you can find somewhere else?
What in your view is a "complete community", including economic development, self-determination and multiple generations? Short term needs or long term aspirations?
I really do hope the long community-building process that the Lakeside Alliance is promising will allow us to get into this conversation.
don Gabacho
1:20 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
"...what do you and your neighbors value as a complete tapestry of quality of life that you think you can find somewhere else?"---Brett
Given the now City of Brookhaven, and being resident to it, I, for one, had been thinking Lakeside.
No longer.
Albie Alright
9:28 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
You should all consider getting together a group to address your commissioners to propose a Special Services Tax District for the things the community al large wants to see enhanced in your area. Fact: You will pay more tax in a city. What better to spend your tax money on than a concentrated list of this you want instead of financing a completely new government infrastructure? Simple to do. Gather, make a list, talk to your commissioner. Novel idea.
Tom Doolittle
9:38 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
Awesome idea Albie. Thanks. If you live or own a business in the I-85/Lavista/Briarcliff/US 29 Corridor (Druid/Lakeside/Tucker as you move south to north), you would be a stakeholder.
Can you help research the Special Tax District possibility and feed into the alternatives discussion that Lakeside Alliance has committed to?
Albie Alright
10:11 am on Friday, February 15, 2013
That would be better explained by contacting your commissioner - I assume Jeff Rader or Kathie Gannon. BUT, Special Services Tax Districts are explained here: http://search.municode.com/html/10637/level4/CODECO_APXBLOCOAMLOACGELALOAP_ARTXIINRESE_DIV2SPSETADIAC.html
don Gabacho
2:38 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
"'Any city in Georgia must offer at least three services, and the alliance proposed the following for a city of Lakeside on Wednesday: public safety, zoning and enforcement and parks and recreation.'"---Woodworth
"Public safety"? As in its own police?
Untrue. The Constitution of the State of Georgia does not "prohibit townships" (which does not require its own police) despite Rep. Mike Jacobs' disingenuous and nullifying claim that it does.
In that case for the, then, proposed City(-Only) of Brookhaven.
In fact, the Preamble of the State Constitution of Georgia, the consitution's very reason-for-being, allows it.
Similarly "allowed" in the very bill proposed for legislation (to have the state comply with the National Voters Rights Act) by Jacobs, and in his own hand.
There's nothing like getting off on the wrong foot.
"'You may not believe that, and that's your prerogative,'
she said. None of us have an agenda.'"
And just who (and how many) of the so-called "citizens committee" members of C4DK and B'Yes (now with official positions in the City of Brookhaven) should Woodworth be quoting?
Surely not the present Brookhaven Mayor Davis alone.
RandyRand
3:41 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Don, Your point seems a bit fuzzy! In the presentation Woodworth made a point by saying that any new city must provide 3 out of a list of 7-9 services. The three that she identified and you mention above are what the group concieved initially as likely candidates. Leaving off things like Fire, Sanitation, Water,.... How is that getting off on the wrong foot?
don Gabacho
4:36 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
4:35 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
"In the presentation Woodworth made a point by saying that any new city must provide 3 out of a list of 7-9 services..."----RandyRand
Thank you for the correction. Jacobs' declaration for the City of Brookhaven now stands with Jacobs and his perceptible entourage alone.
Leaving however the question: Just why is this alliance not leaving all the services open for referendum?
(Or even the choice of being a "City" or "Township"?)
Is that not at least "fuzzy"?
Still getting off on the wrong foot?
don Gabacho
4:49 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
PS: Given the info reported so far:
Is this alliance and proposed city to ignore also the Mexican Government (per its Institute of Mexico) first brought to task for both: its having incorporated itself as its "Institute of Mexico," originally on Apple Valley Way, and having and using still untold numbers of our own voter registration forms, prior to any new elections and referendums?
An item that can certainly nullify any city and its cityhooding.
Jeep Hook
7:53 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
I too am of the opinion that the attraction of a greater geographical and cultural connection will proof to be too big a force than the small minded actions of folks who seek to exclude rather than include!
I'd love to see them don't put their energy, time, ideas and effort into the greater good!
Lou
8:57 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Sallly, what is your proof that people in a new city of Lakeside would continue to use the name of Atlanta? I've never heard of this happening but I'm willing to learn as long as proof is given. So the new city of Brookhaven did not become Brookhaven and the new city of Johns Creek continued to be Alpharetta?? IF concrete proof could be given that those of us who do not want to lose our Atlanta address could continue to have it, I think perhaps some of the strong opposition to forming a new city would dissipate.
RandyRand
9:20 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Here is a little test you can run if you are worried about your Atlanta address. Have someone send you or send yourself a letter and write any city you want in the city field. Feel free to put Germany or France in the city field it does not matter, put GA as the state and put you zip code and if your want faster service put your zip + 4 number on the letter. You will get the letter! No one looks at the City field if your zip is legible. If you're in business, in today's world all search is geopositioned so having ATL does not matter as your new customers will find you with distance based geosearch not by some city name abstract. FYI there are hundreds of small and large companies on Old Milton Parkway in the City of Milton that have Atlanta as an address and that is 25 miles outside the 285. So of these concerns have simple solutions. Relax....
don Gabacho
12:28 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
"Have someone send you or send yourself a letter and write any city you want in the city field."---Randy Rand
Better yet, send a certified package to the USDOJ entiltled "MxGov Registering Voters for US elections."
And then see if you get a notice of the registered mail recieved.
At least for 30319 (in Brookhaven).
Lou
10:27 pm on Friday, February 15, 2013
Sorry, RandyRand, but I prefer to have a correct address.
Carrie Redwine
12:06 pm on Thursday, February 21, 2013
Yes!!!!!
Eldridge Harrington
10:38 am on Saturday, February 16, 2013
As a property owner in the proposed area, I'm trying to make a clear and informed decision on where I'd stand if this were ever put to a vote. Unfortunately I'm seeing a lot of heart-felt opinion and not much clean-cut logic in every online discussion regarding this proposed city. Are there any sociopolitical or other pertinent qualifications within the current group of LCA organizers? Do the organizers stand to benefit, financially, if this city comes to fruition? Please advise, anyone without blinding passion for or against this idea. I'd like to know who is piloting this ship, and why, if I'm a candidate for potential exodus.
Tom Doolittle
12:46 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
Eldridge, pls be specific as to the credible reasons for "exodus". I assume in the public forums that are promised to us that the question will arise.
The questions would be something like this:
What conditions would have to be in place or threatened to become a reality for you to up-root and seek another quality of life? (emphasis on another because you'll never get all that you want--for instance leaving here would jeapordize your access to many places, not just by disance but also choice of routes?)
Is your choice "city or exodus" and nothing in between?
Are you really envisioning an awesome new jurisdiction or just simply responding to what you hear about DeKalb County's problems--do you know and feel the problems with DeKalb or are you simply reading and hearing about them?
What evidence would you have to have before you knew these problems were going to come to fruition?
What you do you think the probability is that your greatest fears will be resolved by having city boundaries, a city bureaucracy and three city services--that no doubt would have to expand to provide all that you are most concerned about where DeKalb County is concerned.
How sure do your need to be that these things will occur before you vote to incorporate--or leave?
Maybe most important to everyone because we're all in differnt stages of life:
What time frame for forming a new jurisdiction, planning to form one, forming a stronger community is relevant to your decision?
Tom Doolittle
12:53 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
I forgot one--
In terms of the timeframe you think is relevant to discussing and deciding on whether some kind of new jurisdiction is needed in some place and boundary:
"How long would you be willing to watch to determine whether the perormance of the City of Brookhaven is satifactory enough to procceed her?
Fran
12:24 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
The only financial benefit for the organizers - and all residents of this community expressing interest in exploring options - is to maintain and/or increase their residential property values by residing in an efficiently managed and organized city. To potentially have a city that would attract businesses to locate there - so we don't have to travel to Perimeter or Buckhead to shop. To enforce codes and zoning locally so it's an attractive community to live and work.
Eldridge Harrington
3:33 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
Fran, thank you for your straight-forward answers allowing me some insight.
Tom, I apologize, my poor metaphor stating "exodus" was probably not used with the utmost clarity. As for "being a candidate for potential exodus" I was referring to being subject to the potential change of jurisdiction that would suddenly surround me if the cityhood came to fruition. In fact, a new cityhood would probably be the polar opposite of an exodus--no one would have to move an inch to have their jurisdiction altered.
I, personally, am in no position nor do I have the desire to uproot regardless of this area's future. Without regard to the unexpected, I will be residing here for many years to come. In these online discussions I merely seek insight on the possible structure change(s)--the reasons people want change and what might affect us, as well as what role I might play to help create something beneficial for all involved. I don't know that a new city would be positive or negative as I understand there are vast differences of opinion. Most of the arguments I'm reading are tied to either capital or class structure, which both seem to be irrelevant by our technology-driven up-and-coming leaders. It's truly a difficult thing for me to grasp as far a progression. I realize there is a lot of emotion tied into this discussion and there will be no way to please everyone but the fewer things we can damage along the way seems to be the most logical approach. What would that be?
Ohioan
3:58 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
Your address will not change. Right now there is no such thing as a Johns Creek, Milton, Peachtree Corners, or Brookhaven zip code, nor will there be a Lakeside zip code.
Lou
7:52 pm on Sunday, February 17, 2013
So those of us who are now "Atlanta, Georgia 30345" would then be "Lakeside, Georgia 30345"? I'm not talking about a zip code change. I'm talking about the city name changing. Yes, I know I don't live in the City of Atlanta but I've always lived in Atlanta in DeKalb. So I'm still seeking proof that we would not lose our Atlanta address, not that we would not lose our current zip code.
Rob
4:40 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
Boy the "Trolling" is thick in here today...and on such a beautiful Saturday when "Normal" people are out and about....
TomMiller1
4:47 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
Time for a Lakeside Patch? Take this city fight, the gutter sniping, potshots and personal attacks to its own little piece of the intraweb? As opposed to on here, where the grueling mudslinging just ended?
This is just some trouble makers trying to make life miserable for Dekalb County.
Sharon Strange Stepler
5:10 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
I was skeptical but open-minded when I arrived at the Lakeside meeting. By the time I left, I was alarmed. I have several concerns, but the biggest one is zoning. There was no coherent reason given for having the new city take over zoning, and I see real risks to my area (North Briarcliff). Under DeKalb County's long-term plan, the residential parts of the North Briarcliff area are slated to remain single-family residential. If zoning is given over to a city - especially a city with no natural central business district - I fear the hunger to expand the non-residential tax base will lead to multi-family and commercial zoning along Briarcliff and other residential corridors. That would ruin adjoining neighborhoods. The Alliance never explained why they want the city to take on zoning - or, for that matter, what specific problems they thought a new city would solve in general. The only clearly identified issue was the desire to have more police patrolling the area. Otherwise, the proffered reasons were vague and left me with the impression that the push for cityhood is fueled more by a desire to secede from DeKalb County than any plan to address concrete, identifiable problems.
RandyRand
5:42 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
Better locally focused zoning control is an important issue. Have you seen examples of thoughtful well planned zoning in Dekalb? Probably not! Do you want a Strip Club in your backyard? Will that help your property value? Dekalb County seems to like the tax and license revenues from Strip Clubs while willing overlooking the crime waves that surround these establishments. This is what we have today. If you can’t see problems maybe you should spend a day or two in the county court house or read the minutes of the county meetings. Is there a better way? Neighbors exploring the possibility of something better, it is a worthy purpose, that is what I took away from the first Lakeside Alliance meeting.
HamBurger
10:44 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
Just curious, does anyone know how many strip clubs are located in DeKalb? How many have opened in the past twenty years?
Special hamburger anyone?
don Gabacho
12:56 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
"Better locally focused zoning control is an important issue."---Randy Rand
See Brookhaven Reporter's "Zoning boards on the way" of Feb 8:
"City Council voted to adopt the zoning code of DeKalb County, so the process will be almost exactly the same as it is currently in DeKalb County. The main diffference, said Councilwoman Rebecca Chase Williams, is that Broohaven will ***not*** have a community council..."
Why?
Because "Zoning was a big reason people voted for cityhood, wanting to have more control of zoning...Williams said.
BTW, Williams was also a member of the so-called "citizens committee" (Citizens for North DeKalb along with a state congressman) initiating the proposal for the new City of Brookhaven.
Sharon Strange Stepler
5:55 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
No one can put a strip club on property zoned for single-family residential use only, which is what my neighborhood will remain under DeKalb County's zoning ordinance and land use plan. I'm not denying that problems exist, but I'm not persuaded that so-called "local control" can fix them. How, exactly? And where will the $$$ come to make it happen without increasing taxes? I think cityhood will likely create more problems than it solves.
Tom Doolittle
7:35 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
The founders will be educated as to what part of zoning DeKalb doesn't have the capacity for. Its really planning that's lacking and threatens the integrity of the area as market demands change. The difference between Decatur designing its own future and Dekalb trying to deliver that as a city service is stark.
Decatur is inadvertantly keeping ahead of the curve with an understanding of the younger set and empty nesters looking for more density. Inadvertant in the fact that even they aren't projecting serious contraction of the economy. However, the stability and connection in that society will handle the transition to localized food supply and industry.
Fact is though, where the "city-making" process fails is the Vinson studies don't consider various economic scenarios for the future where home values further contract, aging, fuel prices eat at household budgets and disposable income is 20% of what it is today--and icing on cake, this is the most expensive time in history to build anything, form anything. Complete fallacy.
Not saying it can't be done, but people better get the rose color out of their glasses FIRST--not later. The best chance of new cities to succeed is Sandy Springs--and it hasn't gotten hammered with the next wave of contraction--at the very time they will have to finance new facilties and maintain failing county stuff--that THEY didn't have to borrow to build.
Gonna be interesting and we outa take at least 5 years to watch what happens.
Tom Doolittle
7:53 pm on Saturday, February 16, 2013
great example of DeKalb's no capacity to plan--the Sembler proposal. DeKalb essentially asked a developer to do with its own property(ies) what DeKalb should have already done for the entire Exective Park, Druid Hills Road Corridor--AND it should have had already put a priority on getting commercial property owners to do a CID for the same area. THEN they would have been ready for any developer proposal on a single site--or assemblage.
Therefore what was a call for planning became a zoning issue...and it is still happening there and Clairmont at I-85..and is the fear at Shallowford. Best proposal so far has been Emory Morsberger trying to get commercial interests to form an I-85 Corridor CID covering four intersate interchanges. That at least begins a planning process that residential interests can work with in specific locations--and we don't have to bite off any obligations. Perimeter Center and Dunwoody (two differnt jurisdictions at that time) were able to come to terms wayyyyyy before city formation. Morsbergers other corridor CID has been a miracle of partnership with neighborhoods. Both now offer a template for forms of negotiation.
You can have all of that while the area studies and comes together over at least five years and waits and watches for the challenges Dunwoody (maybe works) and the Brookhaven disaster face. No doubt Brookhaven will have to merge with Dun on the north and Chamb on the east.
HamBurger
11:17 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
“Gonna be interesting and we outa take at least 5 years to watch what happens.”
Brookhaven did not do this. Voters were sold a city that was not completely thought out and is being run primarily by a group of people, although affiliated with city creation for several years, that have no practical understanding of government, how it works, and the consequences of their actions.
As time goes by, many of the volunteer positions associated with running a city are filled with folks heavily involved in the cityhood effort. Many of these folks were extremely abrasive towards anyone that dared to question the need for a city. Yet, they are appointed by their city crony Mayor Davis.
All of this has lead to further divisiveness in what you may think is a wonderful new city.
If you really want a new city, take your time, make certain the reasons for cityhood are sound, get everyone on board, verify there is no trickanology with your Vinson study, and give it a whirl.
But, at the end of the day, why would anyone want to vote another layer of government on themselves instead of cleaning up what they have? And, your school system? You are STILL in DeKalb!
Please pass the yellow mustard!
don Gabacho
5:08 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
"...but I'm not persuaded that so-called "local control" can fix them..."----Sharon Strange Stepler
Or even hear about them?
RE: "Public hearings" of zoning applications in the City of Brookhaven, now without a "community council," and instead an appointed "planning commission" only:
"But its our intent for the public to be notified..."---City of Brookhaven Counsilwoman, Rebecca Chase Williams
In other words: We'll let you know.
Da Brat Deville
9:28 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
Tom,
Good shout-out to Emory Morsberger and the CID concept, in general. For the benefit of those unfamiliar, Community Improvement Districts (CIDs) are areas whereby business owners self-tax themselves to provide a higher level of security through increased Police patrols, streamlined permitting and engineering for major projects such as rebuilding bridge intersections over US Federal highways (Jimmy Carter/I-85), and initiating studies for long range planning, like Livable Center Initiatives (LCI).
Some may confuse CIDs as replacement government for a City, or even a good substitute for DeKalb County governance, but I will explain why that may not make sense.
The CID is not a political entity which means that it cannot act on behalf of non-commercial members, which just happen to be all residents living in the CID. The CID acts on behalf of and is funded solely by business members.
Both a CID and a City can and do co-exist, quite well, with Norcross as an example. it took Norcross awhile to come onboard with the CID concept ans their were initial 'turf' concerns, but they do work well together now.
Da Brat Deville
9:28 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
As to your concerns about a major economic upheaval:
Current US political gridlock favors inaction on issues of National concern like spending, revenue, and debt, which all need to be addressed to avoid major economic dislocation (the S**T hitting the fan). Georgia Grown will help, we are a rich agriculture State and can feed ourselves, if things get all survivalist.
Deferring a change in local governance from DeKalb County toward incorporation based on 'what might happen to the US economy,' is a poor and passive plan.
Brookhaven's tax-cap may be it's Achilles Heel, but I'd risk that over relying on DeKalb CEO form of governance for relief any day of the week.
HamBurger
11:27 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
Mr. Da Brat, agreed about the tax cap, but some are more concerned about the city budget. We will know by year three about the extent of how trickanology played a role in the Vinson Sales Tool used by C$ND and Brookhaven Yes.
Please pass the yellow mustard!
Da Brat Deville
9:36 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
If Dunwoody goes broke, we all will have much larger issues.
Here why:
The Perimeter commercial real estate market is one of the South's busiest, most widely used by Fortune 500 corporate tenant, etc., etc. This fact is well established, and other markets (Tampa, Miami, Charlotte) still lag behind the Perimeter as THE big dog in commercial real estate.
As goes Perimeter, so goes Dunwoody, the two are symbiotically and inextricably linked. Duwnoody revenues derived from the Perimeter will only setback under the most dire (S**t hits fan) scenario.
I don't disagree that our current status quo is inline to meet disaster, but i do disagree that the US will follow Greece over the economic edge toward insolvency. We are better than that, or at least, so I hope.
Da Brat Deville
9:48 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
Brookhaven has a tax cap, but has few expenses right now. They have plenty of challenges to keep these expenses below the revenue cap, but I think that is doable, even in dire circumstances. The people in charge, at least for the first five years, actually believe in what they are doing and will be responsible.
After enough time passes, every institution faces challenges of staying efficient, focused, and enthused.
DeKalb's reliance on Federal Funding as a Sanctuary County is being challenged by Gov. Deal. Read that here:
http://www.ajc.com/news/news/state-regional-govt-politics/georgia-to-feds-send-fewer-foreign-refugees-here/nWPDj/
This is a quite behind the scenes battle taking place right now. Ask the Lakeside area Commish about this. Oh wait, you'll have to get past the Praetorian Guard and he won't allow such heresy to reach the ears of the Queen of the TWENTY-TWO YEAR REIGN.
How does one make a lifetime career as public commissioner?
Tom Doolittle
12:08 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Hey Brat:
We definitel y need a side thread on the Queen. People need to know how things really work on this one. Seems like a real unique story.
Tom Doolittle
10:00 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
Absolutely Brat:
That's why my recommendation is to go slow, NOT "do nothing"--incorporation proponents have difficulty distiguishing due to a certain "enthusiasm" (its almost religion).
I'll be writing for a parallel plan to the Vinson Inst normal rosey scenarios. Since they (and political climate) advocate under a best case scenario, I'll advocate for one based on worst case. It will show that our city may be a city in form, but will be almost unrecognizable to a 20th Century lifestyle. It'll work, but jobs, propoerty values, income levels, sources of supplies and goods--all will be different and scaled back.
So in fact, the closer people are to their govt the better, but just have a set plan to shift gears and go in with a plan and eyes open.
To do this, we need legislative parameters (and rules) which force responsibility in this regard
1. Require counties to devolve services (all services except regional tie-ins)--and the entire county becomes a bunch of contiguous cities--unless the folks in unincorporated areas are OK with dirt roads and few services.
(2) the legislature will require more responsible planning and decision making from local commuities that extablish parameters for local leadership, probably a step-wise 10 year plan (time for county devolution and town evolution).
Later--I have to find my car that was stolen yesterday.
Sky bl 1994 Accord EX with orange 'V" (Virginia), LP stickers and Lakeside magnet--for anyone reading.
Da Brat Deville
10:09 am on Sunday, February 17, 2013
Regret to hear about your vehicle. Hope it is not used in a smash and grab or another crime, typical of the DeKalb gang MO.
Tom Doolittle
12:04 am on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Right again Brat:
I've been told it may have been stolen for that. However, ti doesn't quite add up, since you can't see my car from the street where its parked and we haven't had too many gang bangers on my streets watching me drive in and out. Nope--this was done by someone who knows me, knows my car and knows my habits (except the one where I don't keep any gas in it).
Of course, my 80 year old neighbors could be running scout for a gang and letting them know what kind of cars are here.
This really smells--I'm pretty sure Rhea had something to do with it. He still thinks I'm arguing against cities and he seems real sure that cars aren't stolen in cities.
Rhea A Johnson Jr
4:07 pm on Sunday, February 17, 2013
Rhea A Johnson Jr
Tom: Thief with poor taste in autos did you a favor. Probably would not have happened if we were in a city. Car worth less than $1500 stolen in Georgia only carries misdemeanor penalty.
Phil
7:28 pm on Sunday, February 17, 2013
Looks like HamBurger will not become a "balanced journalist" anytime soon. Well, maybe on MSNBC.
HamBurger
12:08 pm on Monday, February 18, 2013
Mr. Phil, please share with us all of the great things that are happening in Brookhaven. Also, tell us about the 45% of the folks that actually took the time to vote on cityhood that now feel neutered by C$ND and Brookhaven Yes. You know, their prime supporters are now running this city, right? By now I guess everyone knows district one will forever rule this city.
Not everyone is enthralled with their new cities. Here is an example for you:
http://tinyurl.com/aoamr3r
The 2008 and 2009 archives may be of interest to folks south of I-85 interested in learning more about Dunwoody’s road to cityhood.
Special hamburger and a Cheerwine?
Nee Nee Calderone
1:09 pm on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
The situation described by the author of The Other Dunwoody is noteworthy solely because most social action is predicated by a tragedy. Take the words Dunwoody and DeKalb out of the story and insert 9/11 and Homeland Security, and you'll see my point.
The fellow who voluntarily left the meeting is angry and frustrated. The official was angry and righteous. Good public policy is derived from action, and that is not always pretty.
Try getting any action in the Maloof Building by pulling a stunt like that and you might find yourself ensconced in the Thunderdome, off Memorial Drive. Point is, citizens have a much closer voice to governance in a City.
And it will never be perfect. The key is spirited, civil debate, rigorous and vigilant public scrutiny, and the desire to improve Brookhaven.
Being a constant naysayer is not a good thing, being a constant naysayer without any positive contribution makes one an impotent gadfly.
HamBurger
8:41 pm on Tuesday, February 19, 2013
Mr. Tom, you do not make any sense. And, your experience in DeKalb is a far cry from the example in Dunwoody. Regardless, enjoy your new city.
Please pass the yellow mustard!
Cheryl Miller
2:15 am on Wednesday, February 20, 2013
2011 Graduation Rates:
DeKalb School of the Arts: 96.83
Arabia Mountain: 85.71
Chamblee Charter HS: 81.67
Dunwoody HS: 80.84
Stephenson HS: 79.21
Redan HS: 78.79
Miller Grove HS: 74.31
Stone Mountain HS: 72.88
Tucker HS: 72.42
Southwest DeKalb HS: 66.73
Columbia HS: 66.57
**Lakeside HS: 62.79**
Druid Hills HS: 62.13
as reported in the AJC and the DeKalb School Watch Two blog: http://dekalbschoolwatch.wordpress.com/2012/04/12/dekalbs-graduation-rate-under-the-new-state-formula-58-65/
Tom Doolittle
9:59 pm on Wednesday, February 20, 2013
The 2011 grad rates were the first year anyone who didn't graduate in four years was not counted as a graduation. This of course is meaningless, unless you consider tough schools don't pass unqualified students. As a double whammy for Lakeside, if anyone left the school when their family moved away, they were consideed a dropout. 2012-13 if Lakeside follows up and finds the destination school, the student is not a dropout.
You'll note that the two bottom schools have very high hispanic populations, known for "in and outs". Two zones with high mobility rates (that the official term).