285 is not a border. It is an interstate.

what constitutes ''tucker'' anyway?
wle

Yes, it needs to include Tucker and anyone else who can vote on where they want their house to be. Our taxes have gone up 23% as our property values have dramatically declined due to the mismanagement of the school system and the county. Tucker has no leadership and I doubt that it will have any in the future. If Tucker and the homeowners want to do something for the future, they would incorporate.

"west Tucker"--descriptive, but is it a place?

Is a CDP a "place?"

What does a place do?

I am late to game on this, but Tucker doesn't have any elected "officials" right? Who are the Tucker officials and civic leaders? I don't think Tucker has a town council or leadership.

Can someone explain who the officials mentioned in this article are? I am outside the map attached here and my community, both young and old, want to get on the map because we are concerned about our community but don't know who to reach out to.

The "west Tucker" neighborhoods in the proposed map are those that I believe already see themselves as part of the Northlake community and not of the geographical "Tucker" on the map, which extends into different geographical communities far to the east of Chamblee Tucker Road. As someone who lives just outside of 285, I do not see 285 as a border. I rarely do any business or activities to the east. I shop, eat, worship, have kids participate in sports, etc. all inside 285 in the Northlake/Oakgrove/Lakeside areas and do not want to be excluded from what I feel is already my "community".

My daughter lives in "West Tucker" behind Livsey, and her neighborhood identifies with Tucker as their community and has formed strong ties with the resurgence of the "Main Street Tucker" activities. Tucker may be a CDP and not an official town, but there is a long history and many descendants of the original families still live there. "Lakeside" has no sense of community other than the high school, and no town center or other central hub.

Also, in general, the two high schools have had a strong rivalry since Lakeside HS was built in 1965 and these folks don't care much for the Lakeside name that is being used at the moment. Very poor choice as a place holder name.

My neighbor just sent us an email for a "Save Tucker" Meeting at 730 at Tucker Baptist tonight. I am still confused as to why folks are fired up when this sounds like it makes sense for those of us who want to stay in DeKalb and have some better development than what the county does to us. Can all of tucker be in the map?

Interesting that both Tucker Civic Association and Tucker Historical Association would risk jeopardizing 501c-3 status by advocating a position - TCA website letter http://tuckercivic.org/2013/03/message-from-tca-leadership/ and thie writer of this communication's presentation at this "Save Tucker" meeting - http://tinyurl.com/cwnhm6n

There is no such entity or thing as Tucker. Or West Tucker or East Tucker. Tucker is a post ofice address. That's all.

Most maps has Tucker in large font (and "Briarcliff" in smaller print) I suppose its "convention"--probably inconsistently applied. I'm not sure how these wikis get developed, but there's substantial content about "Tucker, GA" on wikipedia. Probably a fair amount of agreement for more than 100 years.

For an interesting experiment, go on the Tucker Patch and repeat your comment Ralph.

Also, Jonathan, can you tell us why there's a "Tucker Patch" and describe your difficulty in naming this one?

Tucker Patch, Tucker Times, Old Town Tucker Merchants Association, Tucker Civic, Tucker Lifelong Community, Tucker Business Association, Tucker Historical Society, Tucker Main Street Alliance, the Tucker Farmers Market and I suspect quite a few other groups would strongly disagree that Tucker is just a zip code.

I-285 is definitely a marker for what is ITP (inside the perimeter) and OTP (outside the perimeter). Just look at the descriptions for locations of homes by real estate companies, as they are often described as ITP, a strong selling point for many buyers. (Not so much for OTP) In my opinion nothing OTP should be included in the proposed Lakeside city (or whatever the final name is). I have no idea what is meant by "West Tucker." Could someone define it?

To quote the great bard, "Wherefore [why] art thou [Lakeside]? What's in a name?"
The point is to create a new city which might offer its residents opportunities not currently available. Don't like the names? Research it and come up with a new/old one. Why not Henderson Mill? That was a "real" place. Or, since there are a lot of lakes around here, Lake City? Or Briar Lake? Or Lakeside? Oops! We're back to square one.

Wow, with all of the "Tucker" going on, it looks like it is still pretty beat up. We have all sorts of "bad" around us - psychics, tattoo parlors, "Hot Stone" massage in our area. Is it true that all the "Old Town Tucker" folks live in Stone Mountain? I looked up Smoke Rise, which is supposedly where all the old families in Tucker live and it has a Stone Mountain address, as does Smoke Rise Country Club. Do they just not want to be in Stone Mountain?

I will do anything to have my property value go up and none of what Dill described has been mentioned by any of the realtors I know, except for the Farmers' Market. Now that the school system is going down hill and normal "up and coming" young families like mine are looking to settle, the more I have learned from Tom (thank you!) and folks who seem so tied to the past, I really wonder if this is the right place for my family. I am sad that it doesn't look like anyone is watching out for those of us who want to stay in our little neighborhood. I just found out our garden club talked about "cityhood" and no one was invited. Sounds a little dictatorial to me if I can't even get a say.

Hate to bust your bubble Chloe - but Hot Stone Massage is located in Pittsburg on the side of the road LCA now longer wants, just like Pleasantdale Elementary that is a Lakeside HS feeder.

I brought up all the Tucker groups to dispute the comment that Tucker is just a zip code. "Old Town Tucker" as I stated above is the Merchants Association. They are comprised of the merchants on Main Street in Tucker. It matters not where they live, they work tirelessly to promote the area and are responsible for the Tucker Chili Cookoff held this past weekend.

You might be surprised if you took the time to learn about what all the "Tucker" unpaid volunteers have accomplished. I may not be a normal "up and coming' young family like yours but I can assure you, I want to stay in my little neighborhood too. If you are concerned about the area, become involved. I did.

Pet peeve--just as I suggested Rob send his comment to one of threads on the Tucker Patch. Why the freak is this article and thread not on the Tucker Patch too?

Shows the complications trying to define/organize/communicate within 5 fu--ing zips. I suppose the guy on the Brook Patch was right--need a separate county for a single identity.

Tom, I am reading this article and comments on tucker.patch.com

They only want the white part

If all the old families of Tucker live in Stone Mountain, then who lives in Tucker. And where is it?

If you are unhappy with Dekalb County- you will still be in Dekalb County with the City of Lakeside. This is not an effort to secede from the county.

If you are unhappy with the Dekalb County School System- you will still be in the Dekalb County School System with the City of Lakeside.

If you want your kids to go to Lakeside High School instead of Tucker High School- you will still not be able to do it with the City of Lakeside.

If you are unhappy with the Hot Stone Massage and El Noa Noa nightclubs- they will still be there; City of Lakeside is not proposing to take on those properties and businesses and its zoning.

If you are happy with what has been happening in Tucker (Chili Cook Off, Tucker Days, Farmer's Market, Main Street renovations with fantastic new businesses- all without raising my taxes, by the way)- you risk loosing that when almost half of Tucker moves to the City of Lakeside.

If you like having the Tucker police precinct nearby for quick response- you might have to wait longer for the City of Lakeside police to make it over your way.

If you like having the fire department close by on Lawrenceville Highway- you might have to wait longer for the fire department to come from City of Lakeside somewhere.

City of Lakeside is only offering Public Safety, Parks and Recreation, and Zoning. And probably higher city taxes. I don't see how the benefits outweigh the costs to us in the community of Tucker.

Is it not now time for the community of Tucker to reconsider incorporating? We would need the tax revenue of Northlake just as Lakeside does; if we dont make a move now they will be able to pick over the more lucrative parts of Northlake and gobble up Tucker neighborhoods. We can stop that.

Wow, Dill and Mark - for those of our families who moved to Tucker less than 10 years ago, it sounds like you don't want any of us. My husband is a professional at a firm in town and our realtor sold us on Tucker as one of the best kept secrets in the metro area as we moved from our awesome bungalow close to Little 5. We got a lot of house for our money at the time and really did think that we would see some of the development around here that we saw in our former neighborhood that had much more "unsavory" elements around it, but still attracted more upwardly mobile people and surprisingly families. The sad part is, I think that the places I mentioned ARE Tucker and Northlake is not considered Tucker (different zips).

I can't speak for anyone else, but I can say in my personal experience that now that are children are approaching school age, I think we need to move. What Dill and Mark mention are cute things Tucker provides, but we do all of our activities well west of here. We are not a "Walmart" family and that entire shopping center, in the heart of Tucker, is scary. None of the businesses on Main Street reflect our interests or tastes and I guess Mark says it best, it all depends on what you want and I can see that the "Tucker" community doesn't want my family nor does it want to develop this area. It is a shame to be retro and not cool.

Is Tucker thinking of incorporating or are people so dead against being forward thinking? I read a post that compared what Decatur did in less than 20 years to rejuvenate an entire city and they have their own school system, but when they take the tax out for the schools, they pay less than we do! The comparison was that the volunteer efforts have been working on main st for 13 years and this is all that is done. Main St is not the Square. Another neighbor gave me a great analogy - Tucker is the Walmart of "towns" and Target is for the city folk. I have a new appreciation for Decatur fighting Walmart.

If there is no leadership in Tucker, there won't be a city, even though it sounds like Tucker is better positioned to be a city than Lakeside. I find this incredible.

I just have to stop and say that people here are really short-sighted on what is important to those of us younger families and I feel like we are being bullied by old, stodgy folks. If the rest of DeKalb incorporates and this area stands alone, what happens then? I don't think you will attract any families here and I see more people trying to leave than stay.

I think inclusion in the new city is great for Tucker. I agree that the parts that are included really consider themselves a part of the Northlake community.

I think it's funny that people are saying "Tucker" doesn't exist, yet they freely called and knew areas as Tucker as they also used and understood "Sandy Springs" and "Dunwoody" long before they became cities.

Since I've moved to our little part of West Tucker 13 years ago, I've seen our property values, public schools, and services provided by Dekalb go steadily downhill, while crime goes steadily up. So what exactly are my family and I getting out of retaining the status quo? I like chili and all, but we need a little more than that.

Probably going to be an anemic economy that keeps home values stagnant in the Briarcliff ITP--even Oak Grove as has been anomaly will feel this. Some will say this is due to schools, will only be partly--but that makes headlines. I do agree parts of Tucker have been more affected by school reputation--mostly demographics (a natural course described above that will affect everyone in five years--even Federal employment which drives ITP Briarcliff.)

For those looking for quick change, but certainly no guarantees to be sustainable--your answer is probably a move--but not outward, unless planning to move again soon. No--inward and pay the freight.

Fortunately for those that are ambivalent or doubtful about a new taxing jurisdiction, much of the handwriting will be on the wall from Brookhaven by the time a vote comes to the NE corridor (whatever boundaries, the first of however many cities). That may tell the tale for the end of city-making in DeKalb or give others hope.

My vote again will be with giving things more time to shake out and get used to the "New Normal" economy where all of our expectations become more moderated and less fantasy about keeping our suburban lifestyles of the past. Only then can an educated vote be taken and the amount of risk assessed a little more rationally.

Always, always, always be leery of religious, one-way group think and heightened hysteria (inwardly more than all). Thats the time for reflection.

Look up tghe boundaries of House District 81. Rep. Edwards lives in Avondale Estates. The districts runs from below Pine Lake, includes Midvale and Northlake Mall and further North. Part of what some people cosider west Tucker. Hardly West Tucker according to the state legislature.

Yes, it should include ALL of Tucker. And, PLEASE pick a different name. Lakeside City reminds me of Bay Town, TX. That's not going to draw people to this area. Northlake would be better if you want a local name.

Rep. Williams. Sorry, Coach.

Cheryl., I never said I wanted the name to be Lakeside. Toco Hills or Northlake would be better. Or how about Sagamore. Has a nice ring to it.
This issue has nothing to do with schools or names.

Why doesn't the Lakeside area just ask Tucker if they can be included as part of Tucker? Forward thinking does not include using the troubled school system as a spring board for political maneuvering. And, we will not be fooled into warring against our friends who live both inside an outside the perimeter. We will not fight against secret groups with unknown agendas. Tell the members of Lakeside to step into the light so we can see their faces. Then we'll talk. Otherwise, let the votes be counted or, more likely, let this idea be held up in subcommittee while the good people who live here work on creating unity and peace for the sake of our children.

I live in Northcrest, near the beleaguered Pleasandale Elementary school that "Lakeside" does not want to claim. The obvious "gerrymandering" is cause for alarm. Cherry-picking their pieces and parts- schools, neighborhoods and parks- based on their socioeconomic "vision" does very little to speak of a plan that includes minorities and a better future in return for added taxation. Rather this appears to be - as others have said- a land grab. I am in favor of joining an incorporated township, city village- whatever- but only one that respects natural and established boundaries, not what works for them alone.

Chloe -
My first post listed many of the local Tucker volunteer organizations & said Tucker was more than a zip code. Period. That was the extent of my post.

You took issue by stating that the groups I mentioned, save the Farmers Market are not mentioned by Realtors. Your response had no relevance on the point of my original post - Tucker is more than a zip code.

You said the area was beat up & mentioned the tattoo parlor & Hot Stone. You further stated that your 'normal "up and coming' family' is looking to settle' and wondered if this is the right area for your family.

I responded that Hot Stone was now outside the area the LCA wanted, mentioning that in doing so they took out one of the elementary feeder schools and answered your question about the Old Town Tucker group.

I invited you to learn more about the Tucker groups you disparaged and said if you were concerned about the area to get involved, just as I have.

Chloe - cont

Your realtor sold you on Tucker being one of the best kept metro secrets right? Not Northlake, not Lakeside, not half of Tucker but Tucker.

You stated that "for those of our families who moved to Tucker less than 10 years ago, it sounds like you don't want any of us". How you managed to twist what I said into that I have no idea.

You said what Tucker does is cute but you do all of your activities west of Tucker. You said the businesses on Main don't reflect your interests or tastes.
From everything you have said it sounds to me like you have yet to learn what makes Tucker special which is exactly why your realtor told you Tucker was the best kept secret in metro Atlanta. We rally around our locally owned businesses and support them in both good times and bad. Just look at how the other business owners & residents of Tucker rallied to aid the displaced employees of Handy Hardware on more than one occasion.

You stated "the volunteer efforts have been working on main st for 13 years and this is all that is done. Main St is not the Square." To my knowledge the people & groups that have been working on Main Street never envisioned it as the next Square. Perhaps you just thought it would be natural progression to see Tucker move toward that model without your ‘upwardly mobile family’ expending the time, energy or resources to make it so.

Chloe - part 3

If you don't like the way things have progressed around you then again - get involved. Make an effort to change things rather than criticize the people that have become involved and taken time from their personal lives to make a difference in our community.

You want the cool atmosphere of Little 5 and the school system of Decatur and the awful truth you are now learning is that Tucker will probably never be 'cool' enough for your & I quote again 'upwardly mobile' family. You seem to be fixated on that aspect of your family Chloe and have called out anyone who disagrees with you as old, stodgy, stuck in the past & short-sighted. I am far from it but you will never know - I don't fit your mold of an 'upwardly mobile family'.

If you are more concerned with your status, cannot be bothered to work toward a common goal, improving the parks, zoning and community you live in yet spend time criticizing those that do then you may be correct. This may not be the best area for your upwardly mobile family with imported SUVs, 2.2 children and labradoodle.

WE ARE TUCKER.

Dill- you are spot on with your assessment. I will not apologize for wanting more for my family than chili cook-offs and Tucker Day. I volunteer in my community, my preschool and at church, not to mention the children's sporting teams. It is this county that continues to embarrass me and I still have to tell people where Tucker is even though they only live 15 minutes away. Seeing that you are probably the pseudo-leadership that volunteers in Tucker, let me be clear that we love our neighborhood and community with like minded folks and WE are wondering why Tucker wants to remain so closed off and unwelcoming. I just saw the Tucker Patch post the details of the meeting LAST NIGHT today. Glad that the Patch is for free press and not controlling messages. Why doesn't the Patch report what was said at the meeting if it is in the public's best interests to keep us informed?

You and the Tucker Townies are not convincing me that educated families are what will prosper here. I started on this blog yesterday to get a simple understanding of what was going on because there hasn't been a good overview in the Patch for my family to make an educated decision and if you read these emails, it is quite upsetting. I just wanted to know what was going on, submitted what I know and now I am attacked. Please hold yourself responsible for pushing a productive family out of Tucker.

Northlake (Mall) is 30345 and an Atlanta address when you look at the map.

Chloe - please dont feel pushed out. It's just that those of us who have been here, remember when nothing much was going on, and have worked to have a community garden, farmer's markets, a beautiful Main Street, and yes, a Chili Cookoff, resent the hell out of anyone coming from far away, which Lakeside actually is, and telling us that for their convenience, they are taking half of what we proudly call home. Yes, people do get emotional about it. But I, for one, WANT you and your family, and any thinking and intelligent families, to live here.

"Should Lakeside City Include West Tucker?" is the wrong question. The right question is, "Why does the Lakeside City Alliance want a city?" That is the mystery.

What are the specific issues?

Why is another city the solution?

Once those questions are answered, then DeKalb County residents can determine who gets to be in the new city and who remains unincorporated. This is about all of DeKalb County.

There is no need to line up to get on the bus until you know where the bus is going.

I like the way the squeeze in Rehoboth into their little land grab.

Assuming you believe Lakeside City Alliance is a viable, legitimate civic organization--which I think they will grow into with some pains:

The community has more reasons to take its explanation of its reasons for being (that of evaluating, rather than determining or advocating)--than not to. The fact that some folks stand up and raise a flag has the effect of rushing many people into dialogue and organization. We actually will see our communities define themselves organically from the effort.

In fact, my prediction is the legislature will have to amend its city-making laws to accommodate a negotiation between competing parties if they continue to compete.

Don't forget--the competing proposals resulting from the political capital and media attention this group was able to engender....and that was done by one group simply hoisting a flag.

Two fundamnetal qustins--based on the trip wires I encountered helping form N'Lake Comm Alliance:

(1) How can you do this without saying you represent people or a group of people--note this is not a membership organization? If only a discussion forum, then how is it able to form a conclusion and take action ultimately. There are a few "cake and eat too" questions.

(2) Will the group report to the community in some useful fashion so a history is created and the commuity benefits in many more ways than simply having an issue to respond to? It'll help engender trust.

Tucker--which to most seems to be defined by those in 30084, outside the perimeter and east--should be allowed to vote for themselves whether they want to be in a town of Tucker, a town of Lakeside/Briarcliff, or remain unincorporated. It should not fall to anyone else.

Just an aside--even though as a N. Decatur resident I have no dog in the fight--Tucker might well benefit from some zoning that would be a by-product of incorporation, however it's achieved. I've heard it repeatedly mentioned by local parents at our school: The 3-4 miles of decaying, mostly auto-related "businesses" that form the entrance to (what could be) a really charming and viable downtown district is turning nice families away. Nothing wrong with decaying businesses, now, but those that lament the additional layer of government may be missing a bigger picture. Let's be honest. The area is getting worse, with declining property values and crime skyrocketing. A little official vision and regulation could stem the tide and bring Tucker back. Zoning and attention to details like this is what helped turn other areas around near us. Incorporation, however it occurs, might even convince our family to move there--Tucker has serious potential, great location and a fantastic community. But until we see some willingness to break from even a bit of the status quo, sadly, we aren't terribly optimistic it's on the upswing. There seem to be a lot of us vs them/drawing of lines in this thread, on all sides.

I am amazed that intelligent people would rather vote themselves another layer of government instead of involving themselves in their existing government and effect the changes they desire. And, you still have the school system that needs to be rebuilt that has the potential to diminish your property values. (Just look at Clayton County) But, if you insist, start reading up on the new cities:

Here you can see how Dunwoody is doing.

http://tinyurl.com/c3ehjoe

http://tinyurl.com/bl5wkom

http://tinyurl.com/bnwrb3s

http://tinyurl.com/ckx6x3u

Brookhaven does not have much media coverage, but they have been promising a budget for a couple of months now. When it is presented, and a couple of other newsworthy items fester, you’ll be hearing all about it. Until then here is a little letter:

http://thebrookhavenpost.net/?page_id=1957

Plus, there is always Sandy Springs, johns Creek, and Milton for their soap operas.

Special hamburger anyone?

Good thoughts, Dec8tr. I think you do have a "dog in the fight" so to speak. This will impact everyone in the county.

The changes you suggest can happen without a city. Tucker is coming "back" but it doesn't happen in a day, or a month or a year. The things going on to continue improving Tucker, with the help of the County and the State, are not well advertise in part because no one is looking for credit. No one is trying to pad a local city council re-election bid.

No one likes to look as stretches of Lawrenceville Hwy and Idlewood Road. Main Street had to be addressed first and it was. The improvement will continue to expand. From Main Street to Northlake to Mountain Industrial.

Lest anyone think Tucker is low income; Tucker has over 1,700 businesses, over 31,000 people employed within the 30084 zip code, with an annual payroll of 1.3 Billion. Yes, Billion with a B.

It’s Tucker residents spending money in the Northlake area just as much as those in the Lakeside area if not more so.

HamBurger, I would respond that the people who have tried to involve themselves in the Dekalb govt have met a brick wall. It is a corrupt machine. I would rather have a vote that at least has the chance of affecting positive change for our community. To say we should be content with "the devil we know," as some have put it, is defeatist on the outset. I loved my Smith Corona typewriter dearly, but sometimes you have to roll with the changes. Dunwoody is looking to keep taxes the same while delivering more localized improvements. This is a vision we could strive for.

***REMEMBER*** As frustrating as all of this may be for everyone, rule number one is stay calm. Emails and online posts can sound harsher than a one-on-one conversations. It's best to assume that ignorant comments are simply that. Comments made without knowing the facts or having the life experience to understand how some things work. We are all in different places.

Rather than ridicule and call people names, assume they are doing their best. Try to help them understand what you understand, respectfully. This cannot be "us against them" because we all the same - A bunches of Sneetches. We need to watch out for Sylvester McMonkey McBean pitting us against each other. Including any McBean tendencies we may have within ourselves.

Don't click on the links that say tiny url. tracking cookies.

The problem isn't that we need to be closer to government. The problem is finding quality people willing to work as public servants.

Who will run for office at Lakside? The same people we just got off the school board. The lobbyists who have something to gain. The jilted former congressmen and women. THEY are the problem. The US vs. THEM in this thread should be "US" the people who live here and pay taxes and THEM the government officials who continue to run Georgia like a corporations and lobbyists Disneyland with little regard to the quality of life that is being destroyed for the communities. They want our money and they will do anything to get it. Until "they" start being transparent, accountable and ethical, I'll be happy staying farther away from them and won't consider signing up to actually be one of them. So, until then... we really need to fight for our schools and make sure accreditation is not lost in DeKalb. That will be the worst possible scenario for property values, businesses, existing families, etc. Who cares what the name is that you are writing on your envelopes. Who writes on envelopes these days anyway, right? There are good people in every community and I hope that if this crazy idea actually makes it onto a ballot, even Lakeside will see that the Lakeside Alliance will not be good for "us." (meaning all of us who care about subjects like this one.)

By the way, Dunwoody parents agreed to give Thurmond a shot before pushing for their own school system. Even if they get it on a ballot, most legislators agree that it will probably fail. That law about no new school systems is there for a reason. It protects the smaller districts from being broken up into smaller and smaller ones and ending up with very little funding and therefore not being able to offer a quality basic education. If everyone could split off their "wealthy" side of the district into pieces leaving only the "good" and the "bad" school districts, then the children would suffer, poverty would be a life sentence and crime would be even worse in some parts of every town because there would be little or no hope of ever making it higher of the ladder of success. Public education should not allocate lots of money to some schools and deprive or close schools in others. It should pay for the buildings, teachers, books and other needs for every child to have access to a basic education. This is the fact that some folks at Lakeside do not like. SACS wants us to govern our school system properly and take care of all the kids. That's doesn't drive the real estate market to one little pocket, but it sure would help a lot of families and their kids. That's what we should care about.

My point is, and I'll be stepping out of this conversation for a while, as it seems to be getting too heated ;) Government IS us. If you don't like the term "government," call it "organized vision" or whatever you prefer. With a defined vision and courage we can affect real and lasting change. Witness: Decatur. Many of us remember how, well...depressing...much of Decatur was back in the 80s. Responsible, forward thinking leadership-- which remember, is us-- changed it completely, for the better. Their written vision statement over 20 years ago looked toward a green, inter-connected town with a vibrant center. And indeed, this is what we all need, on both sides of teh Perimeter, and by whatever name you want to call it. I want responsible growth and a vision for the future. We don't have that right now...it's too disparate and there are no plans I'm aware of being discussed for how we can improve walkability, connectivity, green space...things that put the best communities in the world into the "best" category. Matthew, this is what I define the problem as. Carry on, y'all.

Dear Chloe-
I don't think I know you or your family but I'm sure I would love having you stay part of Tucker. My family and I moved here from Decatur just a little before yours- New Years Day 2001. A neighbor brought us some fantastic pear soup to welcome us to the neighborhood. I saw my property values go up and way down and maybe starting slowly back up again. I've been frustrated with things going on in Dekalb County government and the school system, too (my 3 kids have been in and out of more public schools than I can even count). I'm just not seeing how the Lakeside Alliance is realistically proposing to fix that but I look forward to going to their upcoming meeting when it is scheduled for Tucker.

I personally don't see what is happening in Tucker as a bunch of cute things- I'm really excited about living in Tucker (but I respect that not everyone might see it that way). It's felt to me that Tucker is expanding and becoming more inclusive and welcoming.

I actually wouldn't mind having a City of Tucker. Maybe it could include parts of Lakeside! "Tucker" is already on many maps after all. But I especially don't like splitting Tucker in two.

One question about a possible future vote to incorporate....is it just one vote of everybody within the proposed city boundary? Or neighborhood by neighborhood?

It seems to me that if "Tucker" would only make up about 10% of "Lakeside" then if every single person in "Tucker" voted "no" and say about 60% of the people in "Lakeside" voted "yes," then Tucker would still become part of Lakeside.

Wayne, there is no Tucker portion of Lakeside. Tucker is a business center along main street and basically ends at Chamblee-Tucker Road. To somehow claim that areas west of there is any more a part of Tucker than it is a part of Lakeside is just not correct.
The reality is, the commercial area that will support a city is the northlake area. Any proposedcity should recognize that and call itself by what it is. Northlake.
Businesses west of Chamblee-Tucker call themselvs Northlake - not Tucker.

And for the proponents of Lakeside ity to distain Northlake is equally wrong. Without Northlake there is no basis finacially for a city. The area in question for the purposed ity is the Northlake area.

Mark - Then maybe you are in Tucker. But since Tucker is not a city with city limits it's hard to tell. I guess Tucker is a mystical realm that some are in and some are not.

Question. If you live near a city but outside the city limits, how far could you live outside the city and say you lived in the city. Say you lived in Toco Hills but your mailing address was Decatur- far from the city limits. Do you still live in Decatur. Or do you live in the Emory area. Or Toco Hills.
Or you livein North Futon outside the city limits of Atlanta. How far do you go before you no longer live in Atlanta.
I guess Tucker, like Lakeside is a state of mind.

I ote the proposed city to be called Northake.

Nobody is planning to move Henderson Park. And it's not a part of Tucker and never has been. It's a park in unincorporated DeKalb County, in the Evansdale-Northlake area of the county.

Henderson Park is in the Tucker zip code area. We live on Thornbriar, on the west border of the park and our zip code is 30340 (Atlanta or Doraville). I feel like part of Tucker, certainly not Doraville, I care about Henderson Park and prefer that people who live near it continue to care for it.
For almost 20 years we lived by Emory, just off Mason Mill Road in that little bulge at the bottom of the the "Lakeside Alliance" map. That bulge was drawn just to include Toco Hills, an active business center. We don't shop there any more -- it takes too long to travel on residential streets. We shop in Embry Hills or Northlake -- or we go out to Perimeter or Trader Joe's at the Forum.
I'm not part of Lakeside and never was (our kids graduated from Briarcliff High many years ago). This whole thing just doesn't seem right.

I agree with you about the Lakeside name part. Lakeside is the name of the school but never heard of any community called Lakeside. Certainly there is no commercial area known as Lakeside. I think it's strange they picked such a controversial name to use for the proposed city and alliance. They say it's only a placeholder name picked for convenience. Blockville would have served just as well.

Ralph, you seem passionate about this. That’s good. Yes, you're correct. There is no such thing as incorporated Tucker. None of the areas we are talking about are incorporated.

However, Tucker is more than a state of mind. It’s a mailing address.

Tucker has a Post Office and everyone with a 30084 zip code has a Tucker mailing address. The mailing address for every business on Northlake Parkway is Tucker. From Best Buy down past the McDonalds on Lavista Road has a Tucker mailing address.

Here is a link to Google Maps showing every street with a Tucker mailing address:

http://goo.gl/maps/rfHwv

As a longtime resident of DeKalb (my family has been in DeKalb since the 1820s) I don’t see Northlake Festival as Tucker. It’s Northlake, but Henderson Park is Tucker. That won’t prevent it from being in the proposal of in a new city, but it’s Tucker.

Are you in favor of the proposed city, Ralph? If so how will a city benefit you as a resident?

I am in favor of a proposed city, and I would like to be included. The benefit I see is local control that it would give us over our local area.

My proplem is with the people of Tucker who think it would hurt them somehow if the areas outside 285but west of Chamblee-Tucker became a part of the city. I can't see how that would hurt Tucker and why they object. I think that should be up to the people who live in thar area to decide. Not a decisionfor someone who owns a business on or close to Main Street and lives in Smokerise or Stone Mountain.

Mary Mck, I understand what you mean about Doraville. I went to Livsey and lived on Thornridge Drive. It was Tucker, not Doraville. The only time anyone went to Doraville was to pick up a package and it was a real headache.

Also, I didn't see your post explaining the Tucker zip code and mailing address until after I post the same thing.

I conceded that when I said the part of Northlake receiving mail from Tucker is Northlake, not Tucker. A mailing address does always make a person a part of a community. My point is that Tucker is an actual place. You said it wasn't really a place and you came across to me as inflexible about it. :)

What kind of local control do you believe a city will grant you that you do not already have? Are there local issues that you've felt you needed more control over? Have you approached the County and been sent away? I'm asking sincerely because I don't know. I'm hoping to understand the issue better.

Things are certainly heating up. The city of Briarcliff is also requesting a placeholder bill and their proposal encompasses a majority of the LCA map but uses 285 as the eastern border, not Chamblee-Tucker.

http://clairmontheights.org/node/3264

http://northdruidhills.patch.com/articles/discuss-what-about-a-city-of-briarcliff#pdf-13719069

Tom stated he sees the possibility of at least three city placeholder bills being submitted. I imagine the fireworks between LCA & Briarcliff will be interesting to say the least. Somebody pass the popcorn.

Dang. Now I can't decide if a want a t-shirt that says "Tucker is a state of mind- in a good way!" or one that says "Tucker is a mystical realm!" :)

I honestly am not sure why some here are choosing to create a sense of divisiveness between neighboring communities, who share the same lifestyle, shopping, schools, churches... What value is this serving?

(For example, some repeated insinuations that "ITP" people are more concerned with "status", and want to "land grab" from the good people of Tucker. C'mon, that's not nice. Could we allow that we're all "good people" who just want to find ways to improve our community and lower crime, however best achieved; That those who live ITP maybe just prefer the proximity to the city, or grew up in that area; or That while some some Tuckerites don't want to be included--some do see value in regaining say in local matters? We may have varying opinions, but I see no one advocating forcing anyone into a situation they don't want.)

It should be up to each 'hood to decide about inclusion, exclusion, or formation of their own city. But regardless if one area eventually chooses to incorporate and one doesn't, we're still ONE community. The fact that many are debating the arbitrary borders of, say, Northlake v. Tucker should reveal that. (Star-Bellied Sneetches: bingo!)

A plea to not devolve into the pettiness and divisiveness of the other city movements. Phase 1: fact-based discussions of services, future vision, and cost/benefit analyses. Phase 2: each area should then vote on whether it's in their interest to be part or not. Phase 3: pick a name based on that finalized border.

Fran - Good post. If people who live east of 385 and west of Chamble-Tucker Road want to be in the proposed city, I can't see why anyone east of Chamble Tucker would object of feel threatened. Tucker community will still be there, as will Main Street and the High School.
There can be, and are communities within cities and communities partly in cities.
Let the people in the affected area decide what they want to do.

Personally i live in the Winding Woods subdivision off LaVista and identify myself as being a Tuckerite and would not be in favor of being part of Lakeside. Would more prefer in incorporating the City of Tucker so we can control our futures. I say set the boundaries 285 to Gwinette and 85 to 78... (though i'd take all the malls around Northlake too for the tax base)

Joe - The problem with that is that without Northlake Mall and financial areas around Northlake a city to the east to Gwinnett would not be viable. The area from 285 to the Gwinnett county line does not have a financial base to incorporate with city taxes being higher than the presnt city taxes

The same is true for Lakeide. Without Northlake's commercial center, they can't have a city either.

I say extend the city limits east to the Gwinnett line and west to the Atlanta city limits and call it Oak Hills.

Dill - Let's all join in singing a chorus of "High Hopes" for those upwardly mobile people.

Joe - Tucker is n ot going to go away. There are communities within cities. Buckhead has been in the city of Atlanta for over 50 years, it's still a community. So is Garden Hills, Moringside, Midtown and many more. There are communities within cities and Tucker would continue as the community it is now. Except with more local control.

Any City of Tucker effort would be at least a year behind a positive Lakeside Cityhood study and possible Lakeside Cityhood effort. Tucker has no place holder with the Legislature currently and it has the TCA working against any viable Tucker Cityhood effort. Should LCA move toward Cityhood, 30084 outside the LCA map will remain where it has been for 50 years, the community in between commonly called Tucker area.

RandyRand - The study on the Incorporation for the Community of Tucker was public. A copy is online.
Here is a link: http://www.tuckercivic.org/docs/IncorpPrelimFeasRept.pdf

Thanks Matthew! Everyone should review this link. By the way this study while preliminary, has a conclusion that is pro cityhood. "In conclusion, we are optimistic that Tucker has the assets and ability to implement an incorporation plan -- if that is their desire." I guess this is another example of the Tucker area folks being bushwacked by the TCA! Now you all know where your problem is, it's with the TCA not the Lakeside LCA!

"The TCA advises DeKalb County Planning and Zoning on all zoning and land use applications in the Tucker area."

What if we disagree with what the TCA wants, as is usually the case for me? I would like my own representative that I ELECTED, not a small group of citizen activists controlling all development in the area. Most of us are not even aware of all the proposed developments the TCA has fought and that ALL of us have been denied having here.

Also, as far as the TCA advising DeKalb on zoning issues.... we now have a strip club under the name of "Sports Bar" on Northlake Pkwy where the beautiful Olive Garden was because the TCA did not have the legal ability to fight this and win. Their advice on zoning issues is just that - advice. We can all give advice. We NEED to have the ability to stop undesirable businesses from being able to locate here if we want to attract upper-tier retail and restaurants to the area.

DeKalb County has carte blanche over here. Nice companies won't locate here (even though our income level is the 2nd-highest along the Perimeter) because we can't guarantee a pawn shop won't be approved next door . One of the things the proposed city wants to take over is zoning & law enforcement. Can you say bye-bye Northlake Inn? Personally, I don't like drug addicts wandering around the street corners.

If you don't trust the "evil" Lakeside people, don't you think it will be easier to keep an eye on THEIR tax $ distribution than the county?

Joe, it is my understanding that the TCA did a feasibility study and decided Tucker cityhood was not viable. Even if it was pursued, we would have to raise a lot of money for more extensive studies. It would take YEARS for Tucker to raise that much money.

Also, I think that the law states that a new city cannot be formed within 5 miles of an existing city. I do believe if we aren't included in the new proposed city, we will never be able to incorporate.

Sarah - see the comment by Lee above for a link to the study.

Survey out--a good one--
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7F9ZMPQ

issued by (don't know the person)
Dr. Yared Alemu [mailto:yalemu@proactive-management.com]

via: HendersonRoad.com

Okay, thanks Ralph. Glad to know there is no rule about distances between cities anymore.

So in order to form a city of Tucker, we have to assume Simon Properties (owner of Northlake Mall) doesn’t resist incorporating with Tucker. Tucker simply does not have enough residents, large businesses or high enough property values to support a city. I doubt if Simon Properties would want to take on the brunt of supporting us. People say they are worried about an increase in taxes? Yes, that seems like a certainty if Tucker incorporated its own city.

Why the angst against the Tucker Civic Association (TCA), Randy?

- They had a study done in 2006.
- They never said the study was by the Carl Vinson Institute.
- Incorporation was feasible if it included areas outside of Tucker.
- The TCA was not willing to cross into other communities for incorporation.
- The made the findings and their opinion public.
- Their recent opinion on the Lakeside proposal supports the decision they made in 2006.

How is this dishonest? How is this keeping things from people in Tucker?

This is not an “us against them” battle.

Isn’t the purpose of the Lakeside City Alliance (LCA) to make life a better place for some of the residents of DeKalb County? If you support the LCA, you’re not helping the cause by attacking people. Fight ideas gently, but not your neighbors. Ideas come and go, people are here to stay.

Sarah - The study said for Tucker to work as a city, it would require expanding outside of Tucker. The TCA didn't want to do so. They are being consistent in their message.

I haven't hear of anyone making realistic claims to incorporate Tucker today. For a lot of people that's like saying, "Our neighbors on Briarcliff Road want to shoot us in the foot. Let's hurry up and shoot ourselves in the foot first before they get a chance!"

(Randy - Because you posted in both places I also posted this, minus the part to Sarah, on the Yahoo! Group.)

Matthew, I am not anti-TCA I am pro truthfulness and after doing some digging the recent TCA statements have me more than a little concerned about their credibility. To my surprise my home was included in the 2006 TCA study area and is now within the current LCA map study area. This puts me exactly in the same position as those in the newly deemed “West Tucker” area with the exception being that my address is Atlanta 30345. I am simply trying to understand, in a neighborly way, if what is being offered in the TCA’s recent public letter is actually factual information. And you are right in saying that this is not an “us against them” battle and I know I am here for the long-term so as neighbors let us look at the TCA’s public comments gently but accurately.
Let us first examine the Tucker Civic Associations (TCA) recent letter to the public titled “We Don’t Need Lakeside Cityhood.” This welcoming salvo from the TCA makes it sounds like LCA is proposing a toxic waste incinerator and it’s clearly not. All LCA is proposing is a transparent, high quality study into the feasibility of Cityhood. Why is the TCA so set against an initial study effort when TCA itself conducted a preliminary study of similar scope in 2006? Again my home is inside I285 but was included in TCA area study and now I am in favor of the LCA study too. So I ask you, who is really creating the “us vs them” environment. Is this how a civic group treats a neighbor?

Matthew, Now let us look at this TCA statement “The general findings of the (Tucker Cityhood) study were that Tucker did not have a sufficient commercial tax base to make cityhood financially feasible”. Really? I have combed the 74 page TCA study twice for these conclusions or findings, they are simply not there. What in fact are contained in the study are the numerous positive recommendations for incorporation. I stopped counting at 15 individually written pro incorporation conclusions. Financially, every preliminary annual balance sheet in the TCA study, while conservatively weighted, showed a cash positive position year one. Exactly how does TCA arrive at non feasibility from the financial conclusions contained in their study? Personally, I have said that TCA is misrepresenting the conclusions contained in this study. I can’t see any truth or wiggle room for TCA here, how can you?

Matthew, Does this TCA statement make life better for our community or is it simply dishonest for TCA to knowing raise false doubts and fears in the following statements? “Zoning and land use issues in this area would be in question.” “The ability for the residents in that part of Tucker to have local control for their neighborhoods would no longer exist,” On what friendly and neighborly basis does TCA construct these erroneous theories when TCA’s own study claims that Cityhood “incorporation would create a government closer to the people and potentially more responsive the their needs.” Does the TCA ends somehow justify the means here?

Finally Matthew, let us all take a take a look at an example of pure and simple demagoguery from the TCA’s recent public statement: “Also at issue is whether it is good for the Tucker Community to lose its largest and most prominent park and its two most stellar schools” Wow! Think about this for a moment. How exactly would the LCA study efforts cause the Tucker community to lose a park or schools? Even if Cityhood became a reality through a public vote, who would lose a park? County control would simply transfer to local control. The parks would receive more money not less and the parks we all love and pay for today would become even more locally run and supported. And everyone, including the TCA, knows that schools are constitutionally outside of the LCA efforts. So now the question for our community is why? Why would TCA knowingly present false, misleading, and dishonest statements to our community at large? It is sad day when a civic group can’t be honest and at the same time it's very concerning! Do we really know who we’re dealing with in TCA? “Are they the devil you know”?

I agree with Mary McK and Matthew that Henderson Park is part of Tucker, and I’m concerned about how it would fare under a city of Lakeside. At the February 26th LCA meeting, I listened intently as one of the panelists suggested that Henderson Park is underfunded and that the burden for upkeep is borne by its users. I don’t know how familiar the Lakeside organizers are with Henderson Park, but they seem to be missing a couple of things.

The first is that Henderson Park received $380K worth of improvements in 2011. Though I wish there were funding for restrooms and another playground and other things, $380K is nothing to sneeze at, especially in this economy. And it’s not as though the county is the only source of funding. Park Pride, a local nonprofit, just awarded the Friends of Henderson Park a $1K grant for a Native Plant and Wildlife Walk (hendersonpark.org/projects/master-gardener-project-begins.html). Following a 6-month-long online voting contest sponsored by DeLoach Vineyards, the Henderson Park Community Garden has just received $4K, which we’re using to buy a greenhouse (www.hendersonparkgarden.org/greenhouse-prep-begins). (The contest confirmed that ours is a Tucker community garden as most of our voting support was local, thanks in large part to the Tucker Farmers Market and other Tucker events.) And the Atlanta Regional Commission is financing the installation of handrails and granite steps provided by the county...

The other thing the Lakeside organizers are missing is this: What’s wrong with users taking care of their park? There are many who feel a deep, personal connection to our park. Why shouldn’t we have a role in its upkeep? Besides, it’s not as though we don’t have support. Workdays are carried out in partnership with DeKalb County’s Natural Resources Management Office and Recreation, Parks and Cultural Affairs as well as Park Pride. Our friends and partners there – most notably, Revonda, Dave, Ayanna, and Paige – are dedicated, knowledgeable, supportive, and responsive. They work with us on park cleanups, trail clearings, and planting workdays, like the one we have scheduled for this Saturday (hendersonpark.org/news/tree-planting-march-23rd.html), when we’ll be planting 50 trees near the playground. They even come to park fundraisers (hendersonpark.org/news/great-henderson-hunt-2013-photos.html).

What would happen to these partnerships if Henderson were to become a Lakeside park? What would happen to the Friends of Henderson Park, established under Park Pride’s “Friends” program, since Park Pride’s contract is with the county? Would Lakeside honor our garden’s contract with the county? Would Lakeside honor TYSA’s contract?

I like the fact that the county and Park Pride encourage volunteerism in the parks. I like that they view park users and volunteers as partners in making our park better. I think that’s how it should be.

Regarding Henderson Park - it is not Tucker's park. It belongs to the taxpayers of DeKalb County. Just as any park that is located in a DeKalb city, it's use is for all residents of DeKalb County. It would be logical to assume that partnerships with Park Pride, TYSA, etc. would be honored and potentially improved with more efficient city management - if this happens.

Regarding schools - directly from the LCA FB page -

The question regarding the impact on schools keeps coming up. To clarify:

1) A city's boundaries have NO effect on the DeKalb County School System's attendance districts. Attendance districts will change only if DeKalb County School System redistricts.

2) A new city cannot create a new school system. Georgia's Constitution does not allow this. City school systems such as Atlanta, Decatur and Marietta were formed prior to the constitutional prohibition.

3) If an amendment is ever made to Georgia's Constitution (which could be difficult) to allow new school districts, a city could potentially create a new new school system if they so desired. This IS NOT a reason for city incorporation.

What is all this freaking out about the park? Nothing’s going to change. Henderson Park will be used by the same people that use it now. Do you think people in the Lakeside area that want to use it, haven't been? Do you think people in the Lakeside area that think it's too far to go will all of a sudden start driving over there? Do you think the new city is going to tell volunteers they can't keep the park beautiful anymore? Do you actually think it's going to get less money when dispersed among a handful of parks vs a county full of parks? Nobody would sever the ties with TYSA. Whatever it has now, it will still have - and then some. Sure, you 20 volunteers that know 4 people from the county might not see your friends there anymore, but thousands of other people will benefit from more upgrades - like bathrooms. Isn’t that what we want? To benefit thousands of Tucker residents? Is this just a bunch of intentionally fabricated hysteria? Because it is so illogical.

Wow. I've been living in Tucker for for 12 years. I've never seen so much TCA bashing and Tucker bashing and neighbor bashing and fear and fear mongering. Or arguing about whether there is even such a place as "Tucker" or whether it is a mass delusion and figment of our imaginations. Has this always been here and I've just never seen it? Is this what it means to come together as a new city or stay together as a community? That I will look across the street and wonder if my neighbor and friend is really pro-LCA or anti-LCA?

Changed my name, since there was already another Fran here.
WAY too much unwarranted fear and distrust. The LCA is indeed amending maps based on community input. Case: Sagamore/B'cliff were some areas left out of original maps, because LCA thought they didn't want to be part. After input saying they did in fact want to be included--they were. If Tucker doesn't want to be in the map--just tell them. No one is advocating taking anything by force.

Sadly, some are wrongly starting to vilify "Lakeside" (see above, and on the Facebook group, whose description calls Lakeside people "landgrabbers."). We're neighbors, people. And it's the wrong tree: the real battle will be played out between Tuckerites themselves. Those who want in vs. those who don't. Which again, is your call.

Also: I live in N.Dekalb. The areas north & west are city of Atlanta. The neighborhood south of me pays incorporated Decatur taxes. I'm almost in Tucker. Does it matter which of my neighbors are incorporated, and who pays for county v. city services? No. I respect each area's right to do what is best for their area. We all use the same county parks together. I don't know if 'Atlanta' or 'Dekalb' owns Thompson park. And who cares? TCA's insinuation about "losing" a park is just to rile folks up. Just silly. No one's losing a thing. We'd GAIN funding.

If an area near you chooses to incorporate, OR stay independent, it's not going to change your day. But burning bridges with your neighbors will.

We are asking that LCA not split up a well established community with 120 years of history. My thought is that if you want part of Tucker then you should include ALL of Tucker. Tucker is a community regardless of the fact that it is unincorporated.

Why does the LCA map cut school districts and leave out Pleasantdale Elementary which is a LHS feeder?

If you could please explain to me the reasoning behind the LCA map following North Druid Hills until it gets to the Toco Hills shopping district, bumping out to get said retail area & then returning to North Druid Hills as the boundary I and many others would appreciate it. That is as plain & simple a 'land grab' as there could possibly be. The same thing can be said for Emory Ortho & Spine.

I am not at all opposed to Lakeside or whatever they are calling it today to forming a city. I am opposed to LCA forming a city that encroaches upon Tucker, splits school districts, leaves islands near the county line, bumps out to get a hospital and Toco Hills shopping center all the while ignoring the neighborhoods and people that support those establishments.

These should all be easy questions to answer for anyone who supports the LCA map but it looks like you folks don't know the answers either. Stop and ask yourself why.

Mark Nuhfer - No, this is all new and very sad.

Dill - Ithink they would accept more of he Tucker community if they wanted to join in.

Matthew - The same kids would be playing. The same coaches would be coaching. Only differece might be a name change of the organization. Not even sure the name would have to change. There is no rason there would be a change in the soccer program. The same people would live around the park and play there. It seems to always get back to the change of the name.

Dill - Nothing would be split.

Tucker - the point is it's in YOUR hands if you want it to be. Want in like Sagamore did? Tell them. Want out like DECA did? Tell them. In every case, their wishes were honored, and swiftly I might add. You are not a victim, and these are your reasonable neighbors you're dealing with. Stop the over the top worry and mudslinging--Work it out between you which parts want in (all, some or none), then GO to a meeting and let it be known.

For the record, I totally understand and love the strong 'community' spirit of Tucker--I practically live there too, save for several hundred feet. I personally feel that from 285 out, it's "tucker'". But if those who live there actually prefer to associate themselves with North lake.. Their choice. Not mine, and not anyone else's either. If some of your neighbors do want their neighborhood to incorporate...I'll say again, it's not going to threaten anybody's lifestyle or community spirit one bit. My hood is a mishmosh, but nobody cares. Tucker as a community will STILL exist exactly as it is now. it became a community not due to any city/county lines, and a shift in that won't change a thing.

Poll--good one--use it Tuckerites
http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/7F9ZMPQ

Frannie - no one speaks for all of Tucker.

No one knows who is the originator of that poll Tom. The first time I saw it was from a neighbor who lives close to the park. Is it the work of the neighbor, LCA or TCA ? No one knows.

Who is conducting the survey? It appears it is the political think-tank posing as concerned citizens who want the power to zone, but for what? They have failed to answer basic questions and therefore the conversation should be over. I do not support sending any information to the "LCA" with their secret partners. They have heard as much as they should need to hear. Neither Lakeside or Tucker or Northlake supports their push for incorporation as no benefits have been clearly identified and a lack of respect for the valid concerns has helped seal their own fate. This survey is a bogus attempt to provide them ammunition to support their belief that the issue is "hot" whether people are for it or against it.

They just want to data mine the results so they can assault with their PR spin for the next year based on whatever objections they have identified. We are working with the government we have to protect the schools and children you obviously have forgotten.

Here's my objection: You are a front group for unknown investors seeking only to destroy what we have built so they can buy cheap, build cheap and collect your undeserved commission checks and bonuses. Take your manufactured data and city lines and leave the good people of Tucker, Northlake, Lakeside, Brairlake, Henderson and whatever else they wish to call themselves alone.

"Neither Lakeside or Tucker or Northlake supports their push for incorporation"
Not even close to accurate, Doctor -- Here's hoping you're not *my doctor... (*This is a lame attempt at some humor, nothing more. Let's all lighten up ;)

I looked at that survey. I completely agree that whoever posted it should be transparent, and state who they are and any related affiliations, under the circumstances. But that said, It covers the gamut of opinions, and is objective. Seriously, why the paranoia? Don't we WANT to know how our fellow community members feel about this, so that the proper maps can be drawn in this exploratory stage, to include or exclude some or all of the area, based on OUR preferences for our neighborhoods? Dill says "no one speaks for all of Tucker." So use the poll (or another one, whatever!) and and let Tucker speak!

Doctor, we could continue the paranoia and posit that *you* may be a shill for Dekalb County, the ones who would prefer we not incorporate any areas (except for an entire "Dekalb City") And no, I don't really believe that, I'm trying to make a point about all the needless vitriol and incorrect accusations flying. Tone counts. "Hatred", Doctor, really?

I personally support keeping Tucker as one entity. I have a foot in both communities. But to my Tucker neighbors: all the reactionary paranoia and false assumptions are not making Tucker sound very rational right now...There's nothing wrong with doing a study. We can vote later.

If you support Keeping Tucker as one entity shouldn't all of Tucker get to vote and be included on the map Frannie?

Um...yes...that's exactly what I've been saying, in this and pretty much every post. Not sure how much clearer I can make it.

How about a simple recap: LCA included neighborhoods that wanted in, and took off neighborhoods that wanted out. They have revised their map several times, and will continue to do so based on further community feedback. But Tucker is going to have to figure that out between themselves first. The battle is not currently with LCA, as some are trying to paint. Figure out (via your own vote or poll) what Tucker wants, THEN request inclusion or exclusion. Chances are, it'll be handled like every other request so far: by honoring the wishes of the particular area. Because no one wants to force anyone into anything they don't want. Does that clear it up?

You have much more trust in LCA than I have Frannie. They may have revised their map several times as you say, I am not privy to their inner workings and neither is anyone else here, but they have only published TWO.

The problem is Tucker is much more than just one neighborhood. Sagamore Hills and the others that asked for inclusion do not consist of 26,000 people as Tucker does. There is no central neighborhood group to ask LCA for inclusion or removal.

LCA stated Northcrest asked to be removed but when they removed Northcrest they also removed Arbor Rose, Ivy's Walk, Stonecrest, Wanda Woods, Westwood and Pleasantdale Rd.

We know they included Evans Road because one of their organizers lives in the Evansdale area but did they ask the neighbors on Midvale or Henderson roads if they wanted to be included? I highly doubt it, they had to be included to get Evans Rd and also Henderson Park

1. The only people that should be able to vote are the people included in the map who will be directly affected.
2. I can understand why people next to I-285 want to be included because their community is primarily Northlake. That's where they shop, dine, bank, etc. A zip code doesn't mean they drive a few extra miles to do all of that in Tucker. The people who don’t live there and embrace their area (Tucker) so much should understand that the people who do live in the Northlake area embrace their community just as much.
3. I cannot understand why people NOT included in the proposed city object so much. How does this affect them? This will not physically split Tucker. As Frannie said, people all around her have different city names but there is no difference between neighborhoods.
4. The people who are objecting so much are just as guilty of what they accuse LCA of doing. They’re trying to force people in western Tucker to stay a part of Tucker. Maybe they don’t want to. That’s why they will vote.

Sarah could you enlighten us more with some examples regarding your following comments: "Tucker residents have no idea how many promising commercial and residential developments the TCA has deemed not worthy, according to their narrow guidelines. Basically, if it's new, they're against it."

Well . . . Is everyone getting John David Huffman's robo call? Too funny! Sounds just like Dunwoody Yes and Brookhaven Yes!

Just keep an eye on Brookhaven . . .

Please pass the yellow mustard!

You can quote this as well Dill: I speak for myself and while I am pro LCA efforts for studying the feasibility of cityhood, my example of boundary lines is simply that, an example. My experience is that everyone with any reasonable common sense “cherry picks”. When was the last time you choose the overripe bananas, or the open box, or the oldest dated milk or the parking spot next to the beat up Junker or picked the "charlie brown" xmas tree? Cherry picking in most society is synonymous of using good judgment! If LCA were not Cherry Picking I would be concerned.

Dill/RandyRand:
LCA did something at the first meeting at Lakeside that Brookhaven never would do. They admitted the inclusion of certain areas within their boundaries for purely financial reasons. The area in question was Century Center, and all of the commercial properties along the West side of I-85 with very little residential included within that land grab. This is by far a much more open/honest/transparent group than the Brookhaven bunch.

Remember, the city that has the most commercial space will be the winner of least amount of taxes paid by residential property owners.

I seriously doubt the Tucker Civic Association will seek to be a part of any city, including a potential city of Tucker. The creation of a city erodes away from their current powerbase. It's more modern than the stereotypical good old boy network, but still functions the same. IMO Tucker should seek to incorporate, and soon. Stone Mountain will expand and take over all of the commercial/industrial space that is left over marching down East Ponce/78/Mountain Industrial encroaching on Tucker. Clarkston will do the same heading toward/down Lawrenceville Highway. The more assets you lock into your city now, the less others will be able to take later.

I am not affiliated with the LCA, but I do believe that the lines should be drawn to inside the perimeter for the city of Lakeside. Dunwoody stopped at 285, and in doing so created the City of Brookhaven by the Dunwoody Rejects(TM).

Once a map is drawn and incorporated into the legislature for creating a city, it becomes an all or nothing vote for the entire area. By that I mean that the 50% plus one vote of the ENTIRE area decides it one way or the other. Even if your neighborhood votes 95% against the city, you'll be included if everyone else votes for it. Smaller areas in the mapped area cannot opt out of the city in that first vote for incorporation.

So it becomes very important during the initial discussions that you and your neighbors decide whether or not you want to be included.

I think it might be prudent for the Lakeside supporters to consider a more focused core area first, and then add the adjacent neighborhoods in the following years, if and when they express interest. Then that vote would be limited to the smaller affected area.

Are there any other major green spaces inside the proposed LCA map other than Henderson Park?

Randy - It is not unusual for cities expnad their boundaries to take in new property. This year a bill has been filed in the legislature to include addition property in the Chamblee city limits. The people in the area will have tovote on it.. Atanta has expanded many times over the years. For different reasons. Does not have to have a balance each time and each area of expansion. Just in the interest of the city and of the proposed area.

@RandyRand, @Ralph - For a residential neighborhood adjacent to an existing city, both the neighborhood and the city would need to agree that annexing the new area into the city would serve both their interests. The city has to work with the legislature to create the enabling legislation, and the neighborhood will have to vote to approve annexation. Ideally the neighborhood would include a significant taxable commercial area that will help with the city finances.

If the area of interest is only commercial, no vote is necessary. The city only need convince the legislature that the annexation is justified. Property owners may object to being annexed, but they have very few legal options beyond convincing the legislature to refuse the legislation. Cities do this all the time, snaking around residential areas to snatch valuable commercial properties. The counties hate this and fight the annexation as best they can.

Both Chamblee and Doraville have pursued annexations recently, largely in response to the creation of Dunwoody. The new Dunwoody borders left out several unincorporated pockets adjacent to Chamblee and Doraville. Their physical isolation from DeKalb would clearly result in less efficient services from the county. It therefore made sense to the neighborhoods, to the cities and to the county that the best solution for all was for those neighborhoods to be incorporated into the smaller cities.

From the 2006 "A Study on the Incorporation for the Community of Tucker, Georgia" http://www.tuckercivic.org/docs/IncorpPrelimFeasRept.pdf

"In considering incorporation, the residents of Tucker must understand with specific
granularity why they desire incorporation. Like many urban sessions movements, Tucker residents may desire localized control of land and development. Residents may or may not be pleased with the level of services DeKalb provides in water, sanitation, and police. However, given the size of the DeKalb bureaucracy, much of the debate over Tucker’s incorporation centers on personal interaction between government and its citizens and the ability to exert control over localized issues in a growing region. Yet it is important that each citizen have the ability to list the benefits and opportunity costs of incorporation.

The process of incorporation will have high transaction costs to some residents in the community, specifically time required to plan, campaign for, and implement the project. However, our financial analysis indicates that running the City of Tucker need not cost any more than what the residents and business are currently paying for county services. Yet, we can not emphasize enough that with city hood, additional taxation may become tempting. Most cities of Tucker’s size have established special local option sales tax. Democratically, the residents of Tucker can decide whether or not to adjust taxes."

"There are both practical and legal messages to be delivered. Although some people may be concerned initially with the legal process and what steps are involved, other people (and arguably the majority) will be more concerned about the practical aspects of incorporation: Who will govern? What will change? When will it happen? Where will the city limits be? How much will it cost? The first order of business should be to develop a communications plan to answer these
questions."

and from the 2006 Tucker study....
"What are the benefits to becoming a city?
A government closer to people and more responsive to their needs. Currently a
DeKalb county commissioner represents approximately 130,000 people and 54
sq. miles. Tucker itself is has approximately 25,000 residents and is 12 square
miles in size.
More control over land use (zoning) and development to decide on things like
new subdivisions, teardowns, construction, nightclubs, nude bars, and strip malls.
Mechanism to revitalize downtown and Lawrenceville Highway.
Tax equity. Currently Tucker is 4% of the county’s population and area but pays
a disproportionate share of taxes. Taxes paid by Tucker residents go to fund
Tucker projects and services.
Improved community identity
Advocates – elected officials and city staff -- to improve Tucker’s quality of life.
Many cities of Tucker’s size have a downtown development authority and
economic development professionals on staff. Staff could work for the benefit of
Tucker including the collection of state and federal grants."

and
"What are the risks to becoming a city?
Requires a grassroots effort with a tremendous volunteer movement and popular
support
Must provide evidence to state legislature of financial feasibility, by funding a
professional study, such as one written by the Carl Vinson Institute of
Government, which can cost upwards of $30,000.
No action leaves Tucker as is for the short term
County currently experienced in providing services and new city would have no
experience
Without infrastructure, city would have to hire 3rd party, as Sandy Springs did, to
take over services.
Without cash in the bank, the new city would have to finance initial operations."

Does anyone know- if, in the future, Tucker decides it wants to become its own city, could Tucker claim back the area that is proposed to be annexed by Lakeside?

My two cents:

1) I think Tucker is a place, to say that it isn't because Tucker hasn't incorporated is a misunderstanding of what the community of Tucker is. The purpose of a CDA is to identify a community that is cohesive, and for all intents and purposes a town, without a government.
2) All city incorporation movements are land grabs.
3) LCA grabbing Tucker neighborhoods is a threat to Tucker, as it would prevent Tucker from incorporating in the future.
4) I dont think that the people in "West Tucker" would be given the chance to vote as a group, but the entire LCA map would get a vote, and even if west Tucker voted 100% against, the weight of the rest of the LCA map could force them into Lakeside, someone tell me if that is not correct.
5) Did the LCA ask the people around Henderson Park in west Tucker if they wanted to be included in thier map?

If Lakeside wants to incorporate I have no problem with that and dont even see anything wrong with an attempt to grab the more lucrative areas around Northlake but it shouldn't incroach on the community of Tucker.
I have only lived in Tucker for a year but we moved here because of the community and the sense of growth and revitalization here, splitting Tucker would harm that sense of community. I feel that we should produce our own map and place holder bill in a move to incorporate Tucker, its the only way to preserve all of what is the Tucker community.

Blaine, the Tucker area did a mapping and initial study, but then apparently let momentum die off, so the community cohesiveness may not be as deep as you may think? I believe your conclusion is correct, Cityhood is likely needed and you and I are not alone. Cityhood efforts are control grabs not land grabs because no land ever changes hands only control. This effort is similar to current efforts to have a schools vs a county board decide what is best for an areas kids. The question is always about the ability focus. I believe that this kind of change is hard to quantify when viewed from the outside. I have asked myself your how would the community change, what would not grow, what would not be revitalized if I lived in unincorporated areas and my neighbor lived in incorporated areas? I would speculate that not much would be different. How would the park situation change, if not for the better, as a city vs a county park? Finally, Tuckerites should ask themselves this question: Why do the people of Smokerise not see themselves as part of Tucker? I would bet that many of those in "west Tucker" may feel the same way!

I haven't really heard anything about what LCA's vision for Lakeside/Tucker is. I haven't heard much at all about what LCA is for (other than "local control") but I've heard about what it is against- Dekalb County (and for better or worse, we will all still be a part of Dekalb County). At the meeting on Monday I hope we will get to here and see something about their vision for our community.

Damn Mark, that's asking a lot.

I'd be tickled if leaders would simply stop invoking "zoning" and replace it with what DeKalb really lacks--"planning". They aren't the same, one determines the other, one indeed bears on "vision" and best--one is proactive, doesn't require property-by-property reaction from citizens and best yet--isn't a payoff to bond merchants, lawyers and developers (at least directly).

We all use the county parks. It is not just those in Tucker who use Henderson (some of my family were scavenger-hunting there the other week.)

The whole goal of incorporating is to improve our community. We have more insight into our area's changing needs than the county at large. If a city got control of parks, they'd assess what's working and what needs improvement, and would have more funds (and incentive) to put into both. Insinuating that city-level control --even if it was by Briarcliff/Lakeside-- would somehow take away much-loved programs, or somehow "impact" the park for the worse is just ridiculous--obviously no one would win with that. It almost smacks of fear-mongering. Parks and roads would get more attention and care, not less.

You know I believe Tucker should retain its 'commonlaw' boundaries, but continued arguments on this particular point seem pointless.

And: Strongly agree with those that call for a "vision statement." It was Decatur's expressed vision statement that mapped out their success. And it is absolutely vital at this stage, before anything else, so that each area can assess whether the cost/benefits of incorporation are in their interest.

The anti LCA Tuckerites should really think about what they are asking for before they ask to be cut loose from the LCA area study. They should consider what will happen if the Cityhood becomes a reality. The financial consequences will be bleaker in some current County budget areas. Let’s talk about our Public park, specifically Henderson park being excluded from the map. If “Lakeside” Cityhood became reality, a Henderson Park outside the boundary map would share in the loss county tax revenues from over 20,000 households. Add to this loss, the recent loss of Brookhaven, and Dunwoody tax revenues which all exclude certain revenues to the County and specifically monies for Parks. Comprehensively, the County ends up with a cut of 25% of contributing households in a short period. Now consider that this 25% of the removed household base pays close to double the property tax per household compared with the bulk of households south of Hwy 78. The resulting future budgets for parks in Dekalb County will take a hit of closer to 40%. A 40% County budget decrease for Parks would certainly impact Henderson Park significantly. Inclusion of Henderson Park in LCA would mean focused dollars from highly taxed household. With exclusion the anti LCA Tuckerites will surely be happy to know that the LCA area residents will still be using Henderson Park, just not paying for it! Be very careful what you ask for!

Do you see the concern one of LCA's most vocal supporters, the unofficial LCA attack dog RandyRand has for the rest of the citizens in our community of Tucker much less the rest of our county?

Even the most strident LCA supporters should be afraid and embarrassed of that mindset.

So who out there believes that it is right that 20,000 households pay for 20% of a county park budget for which supports 120+ parks but has less than 1% of the parks in the nearby area. Does this sound like good deal for your neighbor? I would be embarrased to support this level of inequity, but not Dill.

What about the rest of our community that is not included RandyRand? You clearly stated that Tucker should be worried what happens when Lakeside forms and takes more money from the county. What about the rest of Tucker RandyRand? Why don't you care about them?

I never suggested anyone was taking money from the County Dill, it's not the county's money it's the resident’s money. And under Cityhood they won't direct the money formerly segmented for parks to the County but instead direct it more locally within the city. And Dill, paying taxes don't demonstrate care, if it did the Lakeside area would be considered a very caring bunch for paying on average 200% more in property taxes over the last 20+ years. Haven't heard much of that EVER, nor have ever heard "those Lakeside people are really overpaying tax wise that just does not seem fair".

RandyRand and Dill are really the same person. I've gone back through "their" conversation and viewed thru that lens and LOL'd my way to heaven.

LOL
.

Would Lakeside becoming a city keep outside the limits kids from going to Lakeside? There is a bad element there & so far everyone I'm aware of doesn't even live in the district. If so I vote yes!!

Would Tucker benefit from becoming incorporated in another manner? I'm not sure how a village, or a township work, but it seems we need some definition to have actual standing.
As for Henderson Park, we all use it - it belongs to DeKalb, but it is in Tucker - how does Lakeside get to "take" that into their city, and why would they want it - there has to be a tax benefit - but then is there a tax issue for those in Tucker?
Tucker has been a real place for the 20 years I have been here, and more people who used to live in-town where they had to pay for private school, have "found" Tucker. It used to be a well-kept secret. I wish it would stay that way. Yes, I also wish Main Street had more to offer, and that Lawrenceville Hwy. wasn't such a mess, and that Walmart hadn't moved in, but all those things are reality.
There is no "West Tucker" - Tucker isn't big enough to start confusing everyone with East and West distinctions. Tucker may be a postage stamp, but WE ARE TUCKER - and we have the heart of Tigers - I am hoping we use it here.
I don't want to lose Tucker, or "parts" of it. I want DeKalb to get education back on the front burner, and to start cleaning house. I want Tucker to be the town my children remember growing up in - and I want to keep our rivalry with Lakeside - it's a healthy one. I don't want Lakeside's over-priced and over-sized houses. I want Tucker to keep their awesome elementary schools, and their growing tri-IB community. ...

Lakeside is a school, and a community. If they don’t have the “Main Street” or the downtown feel that they want, I am sorry. They can redesign the Oak Grove area. But, I object to having them try to take parts of Tucker. I’ve personally never gotten the feeling that anyone in Lakeside likes anything about Tucker. I’ve heard the kids talk down about Tucker, and really Lakeside is far from perfect!! Tucker has amazing teachers (for the most part) – great families, and an enormous sense of community. I don’t want any of that to go away – certainly not to fill the wish list of a neighboring part of town.

Lakeside doesn’t need to become a city to make a name for themselves, they already have that. They clearly have enough support to have been able to rebuild and add onto their High School. They have a great sense of community. A strong, competitive, athletic community. What seems to be a decent mix of residents. It’s a great part of town. Just not one I want to live in. I’m not embarrassed to say that I live “outside the perimeter” – actually, I’m proud to be a Tucker resident. I see Northlake as a district – and really, its’ zipcode primarily spells out “Atlanta” – I see Lakeside starting with Henderson schools, Hawthorne, and properties from Montreal at LaVista, through to Toco Hills, and including the Shallowford Road areas. The Evansdale area may well want to be part of Lakeside also.

Curious, where does St. Pius X and IHM fit into all this? As far as I know, the Oakgrove (maybe that’s what it should be called) area has Sagamore Hills, Briarlake, and Oakgrove schools in the area already …and Heritage Park.
Meanwhile, thanks to all of you for being involved in this “town” and for keeping us informed. Remember, WE ARE TUCKER! GO TIGERS!!

So I am in EAST Tucker--- am I not considered a stakeholder in this conversation?
When I go into "Lakeside City" (awful name! and my parents live and I was raised on Oak Grove Rd.) AND spend my money on groceries, restaurants, gas, go to the library etc...all that is not going to generate in my local economy anymore but is going to go to the more affluent centralized folks closer inside the perimeter?? Great. If we are trying to create stronger "local economies" you just broke mine in half.

I live in 30084, but our portion of "Tucker" isn't included on any of these "city" maps.
What happens to us?

I found your cryptic response amusing, Bill Lowe. I guess my area would have a Tucker address, send kids to Tucker schools, spend money in Tucker proper, but we won't be included in the "City"? What's next, are they going to change our addresses to Clarkston or Stone Mountain? Good Grief.

Why would you do that? Making someone else's job more difficult for your own entertainment? Wow. How cool.

Cheryl: Computers read zip codes & direct mail.
Alison: Much of the Oak Grove area has been renovated and we are a proud, supportive community. I also like the City of Oak Grove name idea- as it seems to depict the small town, safe, walk-your-kids-to-school feeling that I feel here. I don't think the Shallowford area is part of our community though.
If the perception is that Lakeside student look down on Tucker I would think that is more related to lack of maturity generally expected of high school aged kids at neighboring & competitive schools more so than a community opinion.
I like the small and probably underdeveloped Main Street in Tucker and try not to miss the street festivals there but that never has felt like my community. I want to identify with a city name of my own and really hope that doesn't end up infringing on your Tucker. The Northlake area does not seem like Tucker to me.

Pardon me if this has already been discussed, but has the idea of a "North DeKalb County" been explored? It's a shame that two great communities are at odds with each other but generally desire the same results. Joining forces to create a county would help push a new school district to the front and allow for all to share the benefits and fiscal responsibilities of improved services.

I favor a new city of Tucker with the western boundary extended to I-285 and the northern boundary as Chamblee-Tucker Road. I don't know where the southern and eastern boundaries should be.